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Forums - Movies Discussion - Everything that didn't make sense in The Last Jedi (Spoilers)

sundin13 said:
Hiku said:

Well it's because I'm not entirely sure about the details. I'm not sure if she warped behind the shields, or if lightspeed just cuts through them.
But I suppose either way would make this an extremely useful tool that they could use against the empire. Taking out the Death Star should be a piece of cake.

To me, it looked like she went through them which would imply that object are physical while undergoing lightspeed travel which would break the universe. If you want to be more conservative and say that she warped into them and objects are only physical coming out of light speed, it would still break the universe.

Even if you say that technology wasn't available decades earlier with the original Death Stars, in that very conflict, it seems like they could have done the same thing with their support ships and saved tons of lives, or done the same thing at the beginning of the movie with the bombers and saved tons of lives....

I didn't enjoy the film but I will defend the light speed thingy.

In the very first film, Luke was like "Why don't we make the jump to light speed now?" And Ham was like "Bitch, if I don't make the right calculations we could go through a star. That'd end this movie real quick."

I'll just chalk this one up to people in this universe not being suicidal and not wanting to risk killing innocent planets or some bullshit like that. That just makes Holdo an even worse character...and I'm okay with that.



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epicurean said:
sundin13 said:

To me, it looked like she went through them which would imply that object are physical while undergoing lightspeed travel which would break the universe. If you want to be more conservative and say that she warped into them and objects are only physical coming out of light speed, it would still break the universe.

Even if you say that technology wasn't available decades earlier with the original Death Stars, in that very conflict, it seems like they could have done the same thing with their support ships and saved tons of lives, or done the same thing at the beginning of the movie with the bombers and saved tons of lives....

Regardless, its going to make every future Star Wars space battle VERY interesting. Will they use this strategy constantly going forward? My guess is they just completely ignore it going forward, with people just yelling "send an x wing through light speed through it!" over and over in the audience. 

Honestly, that would be an interesting direction to take (though I'm basically 100% sure they won't). I've been wanting them to introduce some grey morality for a while and basically making the Resistance WWII-era Japan would be an interesting way to do that.



epicurean said:
d21lewis said:

A long time ago, Sylvester Stallone made a Rocky film were the hero of all of the previous films, Rocky Balboa, was penniless. He had brain damage and his son didn't love him. Stallone always regretted that and went back to make another Rocky film to fix that mistake. He said something like "Why did I think audiences would want to see their hero in such a dark place?" 

That's how I feel about TLJ.

I'm all for character evolution and I'm even more in favor of a great story. So far, two of my childhood heroes are dead and the story isn't really enjoyable or compelling at all.

Which Rocky was that? Did it get good reviews?

I just can't understand how every-single-reviewer were ok with this decision, and even praising it. During the movie I kept thinking to myself that something had to change by the end of the movie that brought it all into context, or made sense, or whatever, because of how glowing the reviews had been. When it was over and I was walking out I just couldn't fathom how the reviews had been so positive. How was this viewed with universal praise? 

Rocky V. Which ended with Rocky fighting some kid in the middle of the street. It got horrible reviews and I'm not even sure if they acknowledge that it exists, anymore.



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Veknoid_Outcast said:

Maybe he had a change of heart? Maybe he wanted the right person to find him? I don't really know. I don't think it changes my enjoyment of either movie in a meaningful way, regardless.

Yeah, some of the things on the list aren't so much that there's no conceivable explanation, but rather that the story doesn't make sense without one. And we're often left having to fill in the blanks. And some times it feels unnecessary.
This particular thing didn't bother me much while watching. But that's because I expected to get an answer from the film later on. Which I would have preferred. Though more than anything, this feels like something Abrams may have envisioned differently than Johnson.

There IS an explanation. Johnson spends a lot of time on the island, explaining how Luke got to this lowly state. This is one of the most fleshed out characterizations in the whole movie. We learn that he lost faith in the Jedi way, that he thinks the Force belongs to no man and no institution, that his own legendary status inspired the wrong kind of hero worship among others. Luke pondering violence against someone he was in the process of mentoring/rescuing isn't that crazy. Remember in ROTJ when Luke flew off the handle and tried to hack Vader to death when Vader even suggested messing with Leia? Is it that wild to think Luke would react violently after seeing premonitions of all his loved ones in pain?

The only explanation I saw was that after what happened between him and Ben, the event affected him negatively.
But I want to know a little bit about how Luke changed into a person who would raise his sword against his sleeping nephew before that.
And do you buy that Luke would leave everyone to fight against the powerful Snoke and Kylo by themselves? Which reminds me, something I forgot to add to the list is:

"It's time for the Jedi to end"

His reasoning wasn't explained. (Big surprise) But is it really time for the Jedi to end now? Then what about people like Snoke showing up out of nowhere, conquering the galaxy? Because we got no explanation about where he came from, so more like him could pop up at any time for all we know. And if whoever trained him still has their evil Cobra Kai Dojo open, the goodguys will be at a serious disadvantage with no more Jedi training. (Except if people like Rey randomly appear as well and are super strong without training... Whoopie doo.)

As for Luke using violence against someone, no I don't find that strange. I even mentioned that he fought Vader. But the difference is that he was provoked over and over by Vader. His first choice was a peaceful resolution. He lowered his guard several times, said he wouldn't fight, and tried to convince him with words and pacifism. But Sidius and Vader kept provoking him over and over and Vader probed his mind. Once he threatened his sister, Luke used his rage to overpower and disarm Vader. We do not know if he considered killing him. Let's say for the sake of argument that he did. In that case, killing was his last choice after a lot of provocation from both Sidius and Vader, and in a desperate situation where his friends were reportedly getting killed.
What was Luke's first choice with Ben? Someone he had known since he was a little boy? As far as we know, he did not try to help him. His first choice was to butcher him in his sleep, without anyone provoking him, while he had all the time in the world to think about it.

That's what I don't buy. Luke wouldn't do that. If his personality had changed so drastically that he would, then they have to show us a bit of that change, in order for it to make sense. This was a very important part of the plot, and it's one time we shouldn't have to resort to fanfics in order to make sense of things.

Well, to maintain secrecy. Military compartmentalization. You ask why Holdo wouldn't tell Poe about the mission. Yet later in the movie the hacker overhears Finn telling Poe about the mission, which indirectly leads to the hacker offering up that information to the First Order, and almost destroying the Resistance outright. The less people who know about a life-or-death mission the fewer opportunities for the secrets of the mission to escape, as they did later in the movie.

Before Poe staged the mutiny, yes. But after? Her attempt to wrest back control of the ship with violence could have gone a lot worse than it did, and if she failed to take it back, they could have all died if Poe issued the wrong order. That choice she made there not to tell him does not make sense to me. It's revealed later that she actually liked Poe, and seemed to know that Leia had positive feelings about him as well. In that situation where it was risking the lives of everyone on the ship if she kept quiet, I do not see why she didn't tell him.
And of course, Johnson should have taken at least a few seconds to explained her motives. Cut out a few seconds from the Casino adventure portion or something. 


Yeah, Rey needs a dark side. I would have liked to see her join forces with Kylo in some kind of "gray side" truce, and Episode IX would deal with the consequences of that decision.

I liked the interaction between Rey and Kylo. I thought that was interesting. And it would have been even more interesting if they joined forces, regardless of which side they would join. Light in combination with Dark. But at the very least I would have liked Kylo to remain a bit more reasonable. He seemed to head in that direction during their encounters. But they decided to make him the main badguy and he returned to being the unbalanced child that throws tantrums again, which I'm not a fan of in the long term. 


The onlookers aren't the audience in my post. They're the remaining resistance fighters, who Luke came to inspire and save. This is Luke's redemption. He had closed himself off from the Force and left the Resistance to die. This is him literally reaching out with the Force, inspiring the Resistance, and distracting its enemies.
I dunno. There are plot holes and leaps of logic in almost any movie, especially movies with laser swords, ghosts, space wizards, FTL technology, and Hayden Christensen.

I see. But that audience would not live to tell the story if they didn't figure out that Luke wanted no help, and were supposed to use that time to flee. Remember, Finn was about to rush out there to help him, and he and many others might have done just that to back up the legendary Luke Skywalker. And the way it was presented to us, it was just by chance that Poe not only guessed it in time, but became so convinced that he ordered a retreat.
And where did Luke think they were going to flee if they hadn't already escaped? What if the crystal foxes hadn't shown them a way out? That whole situation was pretty bizarre to me.
In the category of "things I don't like" I would have preferred if Luke went there in person, and stopped the blasters with his powers. The hardcore fans waited 30 years to see the most powerful Jedi ever do something badass. Or he could have been the one to lift the rocks, and survived until Episode 9.

I don't think the holes in TLJ are crippling, or even distracting. But I totally respect and understand your take, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me.

No, I really I appreciate hearing different views on these things. That's mainly why I made the topic. I looked on Youtube for reviews, but each one I watched was unfavorable, so I wanted to hear about things I may not have thought of. As well as sharing things with others that they may not have thought of.
Some of these things didn't bother me while watching the film. Some did. But I like to analyze movies I care about afterwards. Whether I end up liking them or not.

Last edited by Hiku - on 10 January 2018

Hiku said:

Another sign that Rian Johnson was obsessed with creating "gotcha" moments, to the point where surprising the audience was more important than having the story make sense.

This. This, a million times.



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I agree with everything stated here. I really disliked the film. I really hated what they did to Luke Skywalker, though to be fair, Mark Hamill gave a phenomenal performance!



1doesnotsimply

The entire movie.



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