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Forums - Movies & TV - Hollywood anti catholic bullshit needs to stop

o_O.Q said:
Torillian said:

I'm curious at this point what certificates in a number of scientific fields entails, what your degree is in, and what subject you are considering postgraduate work in? Because I have to agree with others that have said it's difficult to believe you are both honest with the arguments you have presented and in the scientific field.

Swear we met in MKE, but I could be thinking of another user. 

my degree is in computer science and electronics

the post grad certification is in cybersecurity

my other qualifications were from school and college

 

what arguments have i made exactly that are hard to believe?

You seem to argue that the peer review process is a weakness rather than a strength. You utilize colloquial terms like propositions to demean scientific theories and make them seem less credible. Just not things that someone trained in the scientific method would do in my experience. 



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Torillian said:
o_O.Q said:

my degree is in computer science and electronics

the post grad certification is in cybersecurity

my other qualifications were from school and college

 

what arguments have i made exactly that are hard to believe?

You seem to argue that the peer review process is a weakness rather than a strength. You utilize colloquial terms like propositions to demean scientific theories and make them seem less credible. Just not things that someone trained in the scientific method would do in my experience. 

acknowledging that something has weaknesses is not the same thing as saying its only a weakness

i acknowledge that there is no better way for mankind to evaluate things, that doesn't mean that its infallible

 

"You utilize colloquial terms like propositions to demean scientific theories"

i did that with the big bang because the evidence i've seen appears to be way more speculative than with other scientific theories



I don’t listen to Hollywood’s opinion on anything.



o_O.Q said:
Torillian said:

You seem to argue that the peer review process is a weakness rather than a strength. You utilize colloquial terms like propositions to demean scientific theories and make them seem less credible. Just not things that someone trained in the scientific method would do in my experience. 

acknowledging that something has weaknesses is not the same thing as saying its only a weakness

i acknowledge that there is no better way for mankind to evaluate things, that doesn't mean that its infallible

 

"You utilize colloquial terms like propositions to demean scientific theories"

i did that with the big bang because the evidence i've seen appears to be way more speculative than with other scientific theories

So then is the peer review process a better way to evaluate things than religious hierarchy because that was the original comparison and I am happy to admit that peer review is not perfect if you can admit that it's a better path to truth than the religious hierarchy it was juxtaposed against.

And why is it more speculative than the theory of gravity? We have observations and the big bang is currently the best explanation we have that fits all of the observable data. What in your mind is a really solid theory from science that we definitely have nailed down to your liking?



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Torillian said:
o_O.Q said:

acknowledging that something has weaknesses is not the same thing as saying its only a weakness

i acknowledge that there is no better way for mankind to evaluate things, that doesn't mean that its infallible

 

"You utilize colloquial terms like propositions to demean scientific theories"

i did that with the big bang because the evidence i've seen appears to be way more speculative than with other scientific theories

So then is the peer review process a better way to evaluate things than religious hierarchy because that was the original comparison and I am happy to admit that peer review is not perfect if you can admit that it's a better path to truth than the religious hierarchy it was juxtaposed against.

And why is it more speculative than the theory of gravity? We have observations and the big bang is currently the best explanation we have that fits all of the observable data. What in your mind is a really solid theory from science that we definitely have nailed down to your liking?

"So then is the peer review process a better way to evaluate things than religious hierarchy"

of course it is and i never argued that its not

 

"And why is it more speculative than the theory of gravity?"

the theory of gravity can be tested right now by either of us simply by observing things accelerating downwards

the big bang theory on the other hand depends on the idea that an infinite point of matter expanded outwards and formed the universe

its pretty much based entirely on mathematical equations, there is no practical way to experiment with the different aspects of the theory

sure you can say that we can see the universe expanding out from a particular point but that does not naturally have to follow from a singularity expanding

 

"What in your mind is a really solid theory from science that we definitely have nailed down to your liking?"

i didn't say that i currently have any problems with the theories of science we have so far, not even necessarily the big bang since i personally cannot give a better explanation for the universe

my point overall simply was that our methods are not perfect and we do not have all the answers

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 10 January 2018

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o_O.Q said:
Torillian said:

So then is the peer review process a better way to evaluate things than religious hierarchy because that was the original comparison and I am happy to admit that peer review is not perfect if you can admit that it's a better path to truth than the religious hierarchy it was juxtaposed against.

And why is it more speculative than the theory of gravity? We have observations and the big bang is currently the best explanation we have that fits all of the observable data. What in your mind is a really solid theory from science that we definitely have nailed down to your liking?

"So then is the peer review process a better way to evaluate things than religious hierarchy"

of course it is and i never argued that its not

 

"And why is it more speculative than the theory of gravity?"

the theory of gravity can be tested right now by either of us simply by observing things accelerating downwards

the big bang theory on the other hand depends on the idea that an infinite point of matter expanded outwards and formed the universe

its pretty much based entirely on mathematical equations, there is no practical way to experiment with the different aspects of the theory

sure you can say that we can see the universe expanding out from a particular point but that does not naturally have to follow from a singularity expanding

The theory of gravity is not tested by observing things accelerating downwards, that's the law of gravity. The theory of gravity is why. Spacetime deformation and that kind of thing well outside my field. Something that was given more evidence not too long ago after the detection of gravity waves. 

What is the other theory from the universe all expanding out from a particular point that fits with all the other observables? If you have that you can write a peer reviewed paper and help advance science. If all you have is a general sense that it doesn't work for you then I don't see why you shouldn't just trust that the group of people who dedicate their lives to these questions are more likely to be correct than someone who hasn't. 

It honestly must be infuriating as a medical doctor, cosmologist, or evolutionary biologist to have all these people who put nowhere near the amount of work that you have into studying your field telling you that you're wrong just because they feel like it. Thankfully the closest something related to my field gets to these kind of incredulous reactions from those less informed is in quantum chemistry and I haven't really had to face it personally. 



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Torillian said:
o_O.Q said:

"So then is the peer review process a better way to evaluate things than religious hierarchy"

of course it is and i never argued that its not

 

"And why is it more speculative than the theory of gravity?"

the theory of gravity can be tested right now by either of us simply by observing things accelerating downwards

the big bang theory on the other hand depends on the idea that an infinite point of matter expanded outwards and formed the universe

its pretty much based entirely on mathematical equations, there is no practical way to experiment with the different aspects of the theory

sure you can say that we can see the universe expanding out from a particular point but that does not naturally have to follow from a singularity expanding

The theory of gravity is not tested by observing things accelerating downwards, that's the law of gravity. The theory of gravity is why. Spacetime deformation and that kind of thing well outside my field. Something that was given more evidence not too long ago after the detection of gravity waves. 

What is the other theory from the universe all expanding out from a particular point that fits with all the other observables? If you have that you can write a peer reviewed paper and help advance science. If all you have is a general sense that it doesn't work for you then I don't see why you shouldn't just trust that the group of people who dedicate their lives to these questions are more likely to be correct than someone who hasn't. 

It honestly must be infuriating as a medical doctor, cosmologist, or evolutionary biologist to have all these people who put nowhere near the amount of work that you have into studying your field telling you that you're wrong just because they feel like it. Thankfully the closest something related to my field gets to these kind of incredulous reactions from those less informed is in quantum chemistry and I haven't really had to face it personally. 

 

"The theory of gravity is not tested by observing things accelerating downwards, that's the law of gravity. The theory of gravity is why. "

with regards to the newtonian theory by newton it is and generally most experiments done in school for example use newton's theory

for example i remember using stuff like plumb bobs and twirling them through the air to measure forces and stuff

 

"What is the other theory from the universe all expanding out from a particular point that fits with all the other observables?"

there are other theories for the origin of the universe as far as i know, but i haven't looked at them in detail

 

 "I don't see why you shouldn't just trust that the group of people who dedicate their lives to these questions are more likely to be correct than someone who hasn't. "

i generally do but i do try to keep an open mind

 

"It honestly must be infuriating as a medical doctor, cosmologist, or evolutionary biologist to have all these people who put nowhere near the amount of work that you have into studying your field telling you that you're wrong just because they feel like it. "

and where did i say they are wrong? how is stating that we can't practically experiment with the different aspects of the big bang theory the same as saying its wrong?




I love how pretty much every single attempt at creating a topic with religious connotation ends up in a semi scientifical debate about cosmology, quantum physics and biology.

As many pointed out, the layman understanding of these topics arguing from nearly absolute ignorance on those subjects can be extremely frustrating to those with some understanding.

But on the other hand at the end of the day, even those same people, whether they admit it or not, are a lot more fascinated and interested in science than in their own religion.

There's a reason why we don't end up discussing virgin births, talking snakes, burning bushes or surface tension of the water allowing some fictitious figure to walk on top of.

There is one reason for it though... religions promise, but science delivers!



Nem said:

I think religion is the one that should stop with the bullshit.

 

Know what i wish would end? Religion.

Know what offends me? Religious people who think they deserve special treatment based on the fairy tale they want to believe.

Your issue is so small and priveliged that It's dificult not to laugh at your perception of an agenda like It's some holy war. Utter nonsense.

You are an idiot. So you actually think the world would become better with no religion? So atheist arent responsible for thousands of rapes, murders, criminal activity, pedofile child abuse? Atleast religion teaches morals and examples, faith among other good things. Why do alot of people say how the world is becoming a shiitier place to live in. Once an era of good morals and values that the oldies talk about, back when people took religion abit more seriously. So it's just coincidence that as practising people of faith is on the decline, the world is getting uglier? 



KratosLives said:
Nem said:

I think religion is the one that should stop with the bullshit.

 

Know what i wish would end? Religion.

Know what offends me? Religious people who think they deserve special treatment based on the fairy tale they want to believe.

Your issue is so small and priveliged that It's dificult not to laugh at your perception of an agenda like It's some holy war. Utter nonsense.

You are an idiot. So you actually think the world would become better with no religion? So atheist arent responsible for thousands of rapes, murders, criminal activity, pedofile child abuse? Atleast religion teaches morals and examples, faith among other good things. Why do alot of people say how the world is becoming a shiitier place to live in. Once an era of good morals and values that the oldies talk about, back when people took religion abit more seriously. So it's just coincidence that as practising people of faith is on the decline, the world is getting uglier? 

When was this era of great morals and values exactly? In which part of the world was that?

The world was never a better place to live than right now, and except for some issues like climate change, every year should actually be a better time than the past years.