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Forums - Politics Discussion - Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During Elections

o_O.Q said:
WhatATimeToBeAlive said:
Looks like many of you don't know what is the issue behind this. It's not aimed against individuals who state their opinions, conspiracy theories, etc.. The problem is the organised disinformation/propaganda that is (mainly) spread by Russia.

Putin and his inner circle got scared in 2011 when there were big protests against him in Russia, and many of the North African and Middle-East dictators were ousted by the people. Then in 2014 when Ukraine broke away from Russia's influence zone and the "anti-West" attitude/tactic was put in full action, the disinformation-flood from Russia started.

This is done by "the troll-factories" that employ hundreds/thousands of people and are located in Russia (some people who worked there have come public about it). They also use bots who do the work automatically, and probably pay individual people/sites located outside of Russia to spread "the message". Russia has also started to support almost every anti-EU (European Union)/anti-west/far right movement, and target the dissinformation-/hacking-campaings towards elections in Europe and USA.

The main goal of this is to keep Putin (and also other autocrats/dictators) in power, cause division in the EU- and other Western countries (the break-up of EU would be Putins dream, because it would be much easier for Russia to influence decisions of countries who are "on their own" and not part of a big union) and undermine people's trust in democracy (The less people, especially the Russians, want a democratic system the better it's for Putin. All of Russia's allies are also basically run by dictators/autocrats, so that's also a good reason to weaken democracy. Or can you think of situation where a country that is democratically run would like to become an close ally to a country run by a dictator.).

 what are some examples of the lies spread by russia?

https://www.neowin.net/news/facebook-bans-470-fake-russian-accounts-and-pages

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42096045

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41812369

 

Those accounts and pages mainly support far right parties and networks in the US and EU in order to destabilise those regions politically and ideologically.



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o_O.Q said:
Tulipanzo said:

Is this the best I can get? Come on, put some bite into it at least

Edit: If I'm wrong and something is wrongly labeled "fake news" the news corp. would probably sue, making it really stupid for the government to try and do it 

 

what i'm saying is that the idea that it is beneficial for people to be sheltered from discussion is fascist and above all dumb

the claims made about countries like Iraq and Lybia were lies that were spread as valid news that lead to the deaths of millions of people

the government (supposedly the body responsible for discerning what is fake and what is not) is responsible for that, anyone back then who opposed those claims would have been labelled as fake and dismissed but at least there would have been discussion

what you are pushing for could have wide reaching consequences like those above... that's my point

"Oh, nazi is too overused, so I'm going to use fascist because I hope the guy doesn't know what it means." That's just cute!
Fascists weren't exactly operating above the board, I'll have you know. More the propaganda and suppression of workers' unions way than the "you're going to get a fine" way. Which still doesn't prevent anyone from posting anything, provided you like consequences.

I'm wonder, how do you think these apocalyptic (and fascist) consequences are going to come to pass exactly? Because, a boring bipartisan commissary fining Sputnik doesn't ring any alarm bells.
But sure, if that commissary got the power to wage war on sovereign nations that would be pretty bad. Weird, but also quite bad!

Come back when you have something substantial, how about that?



Errorist76 said:
o_O.Q said:

 what are some examples of the lies spread by russia?

https://www.neowin.net/news/facebook-bans-470-fake-russian-accounts-and-pages

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42096045

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41812369

 

Those accounts and pages mainly support far right parties and networks in the US and EU in order to destabilise those regions politically and ideologically.

"Those accounts and pages mainly support far right parties"

in recent times this is becoming code for anyone that isn't far left though

those articles for the most part just state that there were many russia made facebook ads... it doesn't really detail what lies were pushed by them



Tulipanzo said:
o_O.Q said:

 

what i'm saying is that the idea that it is beneficial for people to be sheltered from discussion is fascist and above all dumb

the claims made about countries like Iraq and Lybia were lies that were spread as valid news that lead to the deaths of millions of people

the government (supposedly the body responsible for discerning what is fake and what is not) is responsible for that, anyone back then who opposed those claims would have been labelled as fake and dismissed but at least there would have been discussion

what you are pushing for could have wide reaching consequences like those above... that's my point

"Oh, nazi is too overused, so I'm going to use fascist because I hope the guy doesn't know what it means." That's just cute!
Fascists weren't exactly operating above the board, I'll have you know. More the propaganda and suppression of workers' unions way than the "you're going to get a fine" way. Which still doesn't prevent anyone from posting anything, provided you like consequences.

I'm wonder, how do you think these apocalyptic (and fascist) consequences are going to come to pass exactly? Because, a boring bipartisan commissary fining Sputnik doesn't ring any alarm bells.
But sure, if that commissary got the power to wage war on sovereign nations that would be pretty bad. Weird, but also quite bad!

Come back when you have something substantial, how about that?

""Oh, nazi is too overused, so I'm going to use fascist because I hope the guy doesn't know what it means." That's just cute!"

are you claiming that suppression of dialogue from government is not fascist?

 

"I'm wonder, how do you think these apocalyptic (and fascist) consequences are going to come to pass exactly? "

did i not just give two examples? do you not consider the murder of millions of people due to fake news that was considered valid important?

the point i made there is that under the type of environment you supposedly want to bring about there would be no way to counter these types of lies... since alternative ideas would be banned



It's stuff like this that reminds me that all governments are oppressive. How can someone even suggest censorship of this sort and look at themselves in the mirror without puking?



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VAMatt said:
It's stuff like this that reminds me that all governments are oppressive. How can someone even suggest censorship of this sort and look at themselves in the mirror without puking?

because they want to bring about a utopia and understand subconsciously (not consciously) that it relies on enslaving everyone

i've come to realise that many people are terrified of accepting the responsibility that being a free (moderately) person brings 



Tulipanzo said:

Is this the best I can get? Come on, put some bite into it at least

Edit: If I'm wrong and something is wrongly labeled "fake news" the news corp. would probably sue, making it really stupid for the government to try and do it 

So a Government gets to suppress an embarrassing news story* prior to an election, and the only burden to them is to have to pay out tax payers money when they get sued after the election?

Pro Tip: Gov'ts don't care if they get sued. If they run into financial problems, they just cut OUR services, or increase OUR taxes.

 

* Which is inevitably how this power will end up being used, even if not the original intention.



o_O.Q said:
Errorist76 said:

https://www.neowin.net/news/facebook-bans-470-fake-russian-accounts-and-pages

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42096045

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41812369

 

Those accounts and pages mainly support far right parties and networks in the US and EU in order to destabilise those regions politically and ideologically.

"Those accounts and pages mainly support far right parties"

in recent times this is becoming code for anyone that isn't far left though

those articles for the most part just state that there were many russia made facebook ads... it doesn't really detail what lies were pushed by them

I didn’t say that‘s what’s written in those articles...it’s what’s happening. Those pages and thousands of paid fake accounts mainly support parties like the AfD here in Germany or Front Nationale in France, for example. The same happened with Trump. It makes perfect sense for Putin to try to destabilise the EU (or US), in best case destroy it from within.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/europe-s-far-right-enjoys-backing-russia-s-putin-n718926



palou said:
Aeolus451 said:

Sounds like something a state inching closer to totalitarianism would do.

"Fake News" is very subjective and a censoring campaign against it could be applied to anything the ruling party doesn't like.

The main proposal was to make sourcing an obligation. That's pretty good, I think.

It's still flaky as hell. We're talking about controlling information. Most of the established news is left leaning and they've already shown they have to qualms about spinning stories to fit their agenda. This just sounds like mainstream news wants to cut out out smaller news sources.



Errorist76 said:
o_O.Q said:

"Those accounts and pages mainly support far right parties"

in recent times this is becoming code for anyone that isn't far left though

those articles for the most part just state that there were many russia made facebook ads... it doesn't really detail what lies were pushed by them

I didn’t say that‘s what’s written in those articles...it’s what’s happening. Those pages and thousands of paid fake accounts mainly support parties like the AfD here in Germany or Front Nationale in France, for example. The same happened with Trump. It makes perfect sense for Putin to try to destabilise the EU (or US), in best case destroy it from within.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/europe-s-far-right-enjoys-backing-russia-s-putin-n718926

understood, but i'm just asking for some examples of the lies that are being told... the articles didn't really contain any