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Forums - Politics Discussion - Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During Elections

Looks like many of you don't know what is the issue behind this. It's not aimed against individuals who state their opinions, conspiracy theories, etc.. The problem is the organised disinformation/propaganda that is (mainly) spread by Russia.

Putin and his inner circle got scared in 2011 when there were big protests against him in Russia, and many of the North African and Middle-East dictators were ousted by the people. Then in 2014 when Ukraine broke away from Russia's influence zone and the "anti-West" attitude/tactic was put in full action, the disinformation-flood from Russia started.

This is done by "the troll-factories" that employ hundreds/thousands of people and are located in Russia (some people who worked there have come public about it). They also use bots who do the work automatically, and probably pay individual people/sites located outside of Russia to spread "the message". Russia has also started to support almost every anti-EU (European Union)/anti-west/far right movement, and target the dissinformation-/hacking-campaings towards elections in Europe and USA.

The main goal of this is to keep Putin (and also other autocrats/dictators) in power, cause division in the EU- and other Western countries (the break-up of EU would be Putins dream, because it would be much easier for Russia to influence decisions of countries who are "on their own" and not part of a big union) and undermine people's trust in democracy (The less people, especially the Russians, want a democratic system the better it's for Putin. All of Russia's allies are also basically run by dictators/autocrats, so that's also a good reason to weaken democracy. Or can you think of situation where a country that is democratically run would like to become an close ally to a country run by a dictator.).



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Another step in the leftists wet dream of making the EUssr a reality.



MrRoops said:
Another step in the leftists wet dream of making the EUssr a reality.

The latest victim wasn’t the EU, it was the US. Plus there’s a huge difference between what can be objectively classified as organized fake news, and all news Mr. Trump doesn’t like and therefore just labels as such.



Who decides if it is “fake news” is what is key here. And then who is going to decide that after they are gone, etc, etc. Pandora’s box. 



That's a slippery slope, anything these days can be considered "fake", "dishonest", "misleading", and "partisan" by one group and not by another. This is one thing the government, no matter what country, should not be able to control imo.



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Tulipanzo said:
About time already!
Really, let's stop being disingenuous and pretend that Fake News are some sort of all important facet of freedom of expression.

They are lies. Lies that the Internet age makes able to influence many more people that any following clarification.
If you produce and spread such content on your platform you should face the consequences of harming the public.
This is something that is already used in a partisan, undisclosed and opportunistic manner (and I should know: https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/italys-most-popular-political-party-is-leading-europe-in-fak?utm_term=.fsgaJn0JZ#.vkqb5eZ54 is a good primer)

Congrats to the smartie-pants libertarians going on about authoritarianism for completely failing to understand how a key element of modern online discourse even functions.

and what if you're wrong? as people that think like you most often are?



WhatATimeToBeAlive said:
Looks like many of you don't know what is the issue behind this. It's not aimed against individuals who state their opinions, conspiracy theories, etc.. The problem is the organised disinformation/propaganda that is (mainly) spread by Russia.

Putin and his inner circle got scared in 2011 when there were big protests against him in Russia, and many of the North African and Middle-East dictators were ousted by the people. Then in 2014 when Ukraine broke away from Russia's influence zone and the "anti-West" attitude/tactic was put in full action, the disinformation-flood from Russia started.

This is done by "the troll-factories" that employ hundreds/thousands of people and are located in Russia (some people who worked there have come public about it). They also use bots who do the work automatically, and probably pay individual people/sites located outside of Russia to spread "the message". Russia has also started to support almost every anti-EU (European Union)/anti-west/far right movement, and target the dissinformation-/hacking-campaings towards elections in Europe and USA.

The main goal of this is to keep Putin (and also other autocrats/dictators) in power, cause division in the EU- and other Western countries (the break-up of EU would be Putins dream, because it would be much easier for Russia to influence decisions of countries who are "on their own" and not part of a big union) and undermine people's trust in democracy (The less people, especially the Russians, want a democratic system the better it's for Putin. All of Russia's allies are also basically run by dictators/autocrats, so that's also a good reason to weaken democracy. Or can you think of situation where a country that is democratically run would like to become an close ally to a country run by a dictator.).

 what are some examples of the lies spread by russia?



o_O.Q said:
Tulipanzo said:
About time already!
Really, let's stop being disingenuous and pretend that Fake News are some sort of all important facet of freedom of expression.

They are lies. Lies that the Internet age makes able to influence many more people that any following clarification.
If you produce and spread such content on your platform you should face the consequences of harming the public.
This is something that is already used in a partisan, undisclosed and opportunistic manner (and I should know: https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/italys-most-popular-political-party-is-leading-europe-in-fak?utm_term=.fsgaJn0JZ#.vkqb5eZ54 is a good primer)

Congrats to the smartie-pants libertarians going on about authoritarianism for completely failing to understand how a key element of modern online discourse even functions.

and what if you're wrong? as people that think like you most often are?

Is this the best I can get? Come on, put some bite into it at least

Edit: If I'm wrong and something is wrongly labeled "fake news" the news corp. would probably sue, making it really stupid for the government to try and do it 

Last edited by Tulipanzo - on 06 January 2018

Good, get rid of all that fake shit.



Tulipanzo said:
o_O.Q said:

and what if you're wrong? as people that think like you most often are?

Is this the best I can get? Come on, put some bite into it at least

Edit: If I'm wrong and something is wrongly labeled "fake news" the news corp. would probably sue, making it really stupid for the government to try and do it 

 

what i'm saying is that the idea that it is beneficial for people to be sheltered from discussion is fascist and above all dumb

the claims made about countries like Iraq and Lybia were lies that were spread as valid news that lead to the deaths of millions of people

the government (supposedly the body responsible for discerning what is fake and what is not) is responsible for that, anyone back then who opposed those claims would have been labelled as fake and dismissed but at least there would have been discussion

what you are pushing for could have wide reaching consequences like those above... that's my point