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Forums - General - "Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."

Hmm.. reading this confuses me whether I'm an atheist. At the age of about 13 it became clear to me there was no evidence to support the existence of god and the people that believed in god cared little for evidence. The older I got the more compelling it became that there was no god but there is still desire in me to believe in god given the evidence or some factual basis for it but I can't even see where a god would fit into nature or the cosmos. There is no place for such a being. I see good people around me that I don't want to cease to exist but I know they will just like myself. There is nothing particularly good about being an atheist and not much solace in realising there is no god. I'd be a happier man if I saw some evidence for some sort of spiritual existence but all I really see is lies and people who are much more successful at lying to themselves than myself.

You sometimes wonder what a world would be like 100% full of atheists, I suspect it would be even more depressing than it is now. I quite like the positivity of religious people. Some religious people are exceptionally decent people and as someone who sees kindness and empathy as great virtues I like that. Often religious people are motivated by their belief that they can save you, it isn't a desire to manipulate you. Lets face it if a person lives their whole life enriched by believing something and it actually improves their quality of life and when they die will never know any different as their life fades away. It's hardly a wasted life.

You wonder if you were born mentally ill and were either constantly happy or having the sensation of orgasm but spent your whole life in an asylum just clapping your hands and dribbling would that be a curse or a gift?



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bonzobanana said:
Hmm.. reading this confuses me whether I'm an atheist. At the age of about 13 it became clear to me there was no evidence to support the existence of god and the people that believed in god cared little for evidence. The older I got the more compelling it became that there was no god but there is still desire in me to believe in god given the evidence or some factual basis for it but I can't even see where a god would fit into nature or the cosmos. There is no place for such a being. I see good people around me that I don't want to cease to exist but I know they will just like myself. There is nothing particularly good about being an atheist and not much solace in realising there is no god. I'd be a happier man if I saw some evidence for some sort of spiritual existence but all I really see is lies and people who are much more successful at lying to themselves than myself.

You sometimes wonder what a world would be like 100% full of atheists, I suspect it would be even more depressing than it is now. I quite like the positivity of religious people. Some religious people are exceptionally decent people and as someone who sees kindness and empathy as great virtues I like that. Often religious people are motivated by their belief that they can save you, it isn't a desire to manipulate you. Lets face it if a person lives their whole life enriched by believing something and it actually improves their quality of life and when they die will never know any different as their life fades away. It's hardly a wasted life.

You wonder if you were born mentally ill and were either constantly happy or having the sensation of orgasm but spent your whole life in an asylum just clapping your hands and dribbling would that be a curse or a gift?

Based on that explanation, from an outside speaker, I would say you still fall into that atheist camp in case you were still questioning. You seem firm set in your belief that their isn't a God to fit in, so this desire for there to want to be one doesn't really fall in line with agnosticism, which is more not really knowing or on the other hand not really caring. Wanting there to be a God or some form of spiritual being is different than not being sure.

As for without religion the world will be a more depressing place, I may go a step further in its depressing effects. Many believers see religion as a form of coping. We know that death is imminent, but the hope for something greater helps us push through and makes us slightly more comfortable with the reality of death. Does it make death less painful? No, but it helps to believe that there is a life much greater beyond this. This leads me to my conclusion/hypothesis.

IMO, if all religions were disproven, the suicide rate would increase exponentially. I have no proof since it's never been implemented, but to me it's a forgone conclusion.



Christianity is what shaped the Western culture as we know it, and in a good way, so you better respect it, to say the least, whether you like it or not

there is tons of evidence that Christianity is real, like confirmed miracles, even recent ones, prophecies about WWs that came true with insane numeric accuracy, even the recent scientific analysis of the Jesus tomb has confirmed that it was indeed built during the Roman times, the thing is if you believe the evidence or not, unless you expect Jesus to come in-front of you to show you that he is real, if there was a "no doubt" proof for religion, then everyone would just believe, then what's the point of believing...

for me, Jesus life is evidence on its own, no moral has or will ever write a better story than Jesus, it is just too perfect to be false, the only perfect thing



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

All it really boils down to is the gospels and jesus's teachings. If we all just lived by example it would be heaven here every day.



VGPolyglot said:
o_O.Q said:

LMAO can you describe to me how anarchy which is a state in which there is no government is compatible with communism which requires a very large government?

i EAGERLY await your answer

You obviously don't know what communism is, that's the answer. Communism is stateless.

ok... and how do you keep everyone at one social/economic level without a government?

 

this is probably the tenth time i've asked you this question and i'm pretty sure you won't be able to answer it again



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Christianity is based on faith people put into second hand evidence. It doesn't matter if the teachings are completely false. There is no inherent way to verify or disprove the teachings of Christianity. This ensures that the scale of it's importance will stay the same or get larger as the debate over it's accuracy intensifies. Christianity will retain it's importance in the modern world for the time being.



 

 

fielding88 said:
o_O.Q said:

LMAO can you describe to me how anarchy which is a state in which there is no government is compatible with communism which requires a very large government?

i EAGERLY await your answer

Why do you argue in this manner? You use lol and lmao in such a condescending way. 

Have you studied these topics in-depth at school or something? Or read scholarly documents that we haven't? I don't understand how you expect to have a civilized discourse when you do nothing but talk down to everyone here and use phrases like "most," "many" and "pretty much" with little to no proof to back up any of your claims (except for other phrases like "I know better," against which nobody can really argue.)  

Can you point me in the direction of some of the anarcho-communist literature you're reading so I know where you're coming from? Or where you're sourcing your information on atheistic motivations? 

 

"Why do you argue in this manner? You use lol and lmao in such a condescending way. "

but i mean come on if i'm dealing with someone that can't see that "anarcho-communism" is an oxymoron what am i supposed to do with that?

 

"Have you studied these topics in-depth at school or something? "

whether i have or have not is irrelevant... do you have counterpoint to anything i've posted?

 

"when you do nothing but talk down to everyone here and use phrases like "most," "many" and "pretty much" with little to no proof to back up any of your claims"

i don't know what you're talking about here, can you quote the point i made so i can address your problem here?

 

"(except for other phrases like "I know better," against which nobody can really argue.)  "

oh i see now its about me stating that most atheists hold the position to inflate their egos... so... are you like expecting me to somehow survey people on whether they adopt an ideology to inflate their egos? does that sounds like something i can seriously acquire statistical data on?

i'm talking about what i've observed and its quite obvious that it was a subjective opinion i have... but curiously you weren't offended by vivster calling religious people morons repeatedly

seems a bit hypocritical to me but whatever

 

"The main difference is that the 'anarcho-communits' base their morals on rationality, not on a random ancient book."

 

despite this being untrue can you really not see that this is condescending? and... why aren't asking him or the other people i was in discussions with to back up similar claims like this that he can't substantiate? i don't think you're being objective here even though you're trying to pretend that you are

 

"Can you point me in the direction of some of the anarcho-communist literature"

we're on the internet, you could simply open a new tab and use google right? do you have any specific rebuttal to anything i've posted or is this just some lame passive aggressive thing you're doing here?

 

"Or where you're sourcing your information on atheistic motivations? "

well i've address this above but i'll state that a good way to understand the motivations of people is to watch their behavior... not listening to what they say but watching what they do



o_O.Q said:
VGPolyglot said:

You obviously don't know what communism is, that's the answer. Communism is stateless.

ok... and how do you keep everyone at one social/economic level without a government?

 

this is probably the tenth time i've asked you this question and i'm pretty sure you won't be able to answer it again

 

You can't. But I said stateless, you can have government without a state.



VGPolyglot said:
o_O.Q said:

ok... and how do you keep everyone at one social/economic level without a government?

 

this is probably the tenth time i've asked you this question and i'm pretty sure you won't be able to answer it again

 

You can't. But I said stateless, you can have government without a state.

how can an anarchy which is a rule free society have a government?



o_O.Q said:
VGPolyglot said:

 

You can't. But I said stateless, you can have government without a state.

how can an anarchy which is a rule free society have a government?

Anarchy is not a synonym for chaos.