Harry Potter is just as much as a mary sue as Rey. Every character who isn't a villain loves him, everytime he's in danger he wins or escapes, and seems to always pull off the impossible without training. Last time I checked Harry Potter being a mary stu never became a meme. The only argument you can possibly make for him not being one is his rough upbringing... and what could you guess Rey was dumped off on some junky planet with no parents and a horrible lifestyle.
I'm not a hypocrite, I like Harry Potter. I also like TFA and TLJ. Rey isn't a perfectly written character but I can't believe how big of a deal people are suddenly making of this trope that's been in sci-fi and fantasy for a long time as if it's some new thing that's promoting SJW propaganda.
I do think there are aspects of sexism at play here because this to me is just a fairly common character archetype that's used in many other movies.
Harry "Perfect" Potter beats Draco who's been practicing/playing quiddich for all his life basically the first time he plays, lol. Every movie is "Isn't Harry so wonderful/smart/perfect". Every time Harry being great is questioned or in doubt by the end of the story the lesson is "no Harry actually was perfect/right". lol.
Neo is basically perfect too.
It's also a common archetype for Messiah-religious figures. Take a wild guess at one of them, though he is hardly the only one (again it's a common mythical archetype).
They're not even breaking Star Wars canon. She's basically a repeat of the Anakin Skywalker character. Snoke says it himself, any time there is darkness in the Force, the Force will basically of its own free will create/chose a person of "light" to bring the Force back into balance. This happened before with the birth of Anakin and it's now happened again in Rey.
Seems to me like it's canon that the Force just ups and decides to do shit if there's too much Dark Side fuckery going on. Only difference is Anakin turned out to be a douche, but even then he still fulfills the prophecy bestowed upon him in the end.
Luke isn't a Gary Stu, but he's pretty darn close. He gets what? 5 minutes of training blocking laser buzzies and out maneuvers Darth Vader at the end of the film blowing up an entire Star Destroyer? This is like beating LeBron James at basketball after practising for a day.
I think that you missed the main point that's the meat of this. Rey doesn't make sense in the sw universe. Force users have to be trained in the use of the force to the equivalent of a jedi knight or master to be considered overpowered or at Stu/Sue level to make sense in that universe. Anakin had to be trained since he was a kid and he still lost to his teacher who wasn't a chosen one. Do you see what I mean? She's a Mary Sue without having any logical reason for it within that story. It violates the sw canon and it opens up alot of plot holes. There's plenty of Mary Sues in these genres and people are fine with it. It's nonsensical to assume anyone who doesn't like her don't like her because she's a woman.
Anakin as first presented to us is a 9 year old who without 0 training already has Jedi reflexes so fast that he's the only human who's able to fly in deadly pod-races. He's already able to build protocol droids at this age too.
I'm not really sure he ever really needed Jedi training to be a powerful Force user, he's already well on his way at age 9.
In any case, SW canon basically states the Force doesn't give a crap about Jedi or their training program.
When it comes to a "chosen one" they are given all they need because they are chosen by the Force. You would have a case if the Force didn't stick its dick into Shmi Skywalker to make a baby (tell me how that makes sense).
Force does some wacky shit in the Star Wars lore. Rey is just Anakin 2.0, but this time it doesn't look like she's prone to the Dark Side. Guess the Force got it right the second time around. Snoke says basically as much in VIII. She's chosen by the Force to meet the darkness. This doesn't apply to any other Jedi in Star Wars canon, except Anakin.
Wouldn't be surprised to learn in IX that Rey tracks down her dead beat mom and is told that she had no father, she just got preggers one day. Same deal as Anakin.
I think that you missed the main point that's the meat of this. Rey doesn't make sense in the sw universe. Force users have to be trained in the use of the force to the equivalent of a jedi knight or master to be considered overpowered or at Stu/Sue level to make sense in that universe. Anakin had to be trained since he was a kid and he still lost to his teacher who wasn't a chosen one. Do you see what I mean? She's a Mary Sue without having any logical reason for it within that story. It violates the sw canon and it opens up alot of plot holes. There's plenty of Mary Sues in these genres and people are fine with it. It's nonsensical to assume anyone who doesn't like her don't like her because she's a woman.
Anakin as first presented to us is a 9 year old who without 0 training already has Jedi reflexes so fast that he's the only human who's able to fly in deadly pod-races. He's already able to build protocol droids at this age too.
I'm not really sure he ever really needed Jedi training to be a powerful Force user, he's already well on his way at age 9.
In any case, SW canon basically states the Force doesn't give a crap about Jedi or their training program.
When it comes to a "chosen one" they are given all they need because they are chosen by the Force. You would have a case if the Force didn't stick its dick into Shmi Skywalker to make a baby (tell me how that makes sense).
Force does some wacky shit in the Star Wars lore. Rey is just Anakin 2.0, but this time it doesn't look like she's prone to the Dark Side. Guess the Force got it right the second time around.
You're wrong about Anakin. Any force user has a sort of intuition and higher than normal reflexes but it doesn't give them any hidden knowledge like how to fight with a light saber well enough to win against a trained and gifted force user. They can be gifted or talented at many things but they have to learn it. Anakin knew how to tinker with machines because he learned it like everyone else. He wasn't able to fight against anyone with force powers til after he was trained .
Rey is not like any force user. She's just Rey. She doesn't make any sense. They should have written her character differently and toned her down a great deal but it would change a great deal of the new films. They were written bad and they're catching some shit for it.
Anakin as first presented to us is a 9 year old who without 0 training already has Jedi reflexes so fast that he's the only human who's able to fly in deadly pod-races. He's already able to build protocol droids at this age too.
I'm not really sure he ever really needed Jedi training to be a powerful Force user, he's already well on his way at age 9.
In any case, SW canon basically states the Force doesn't give a crap about Jedi or their training program.
When it comes to a "chosen one" they are given all they need because they are chosen by the Force. You would have a case if the Force didn't stick its dick into Shmi Skywalker to make a baby (tell me how that makes sense).
Force does some wacky shit in the Star Wars lore. Rey is just Anakin 2.0, but this time it doesn't look like she's prone to the Dark Side. Guess the Force got it right the second time around.
You're wrong about Anakin. Any force user has a sort of intuition and higher than normal reflexes but it doesn't give them any hidden knowledge like how to fight with a light saber well enough to win against a trained and gifted force user. They can be gifted or talented at many things but they have to learn it. Anakin knew how to tinker with machines because he learned it like everyone else. He wasn't able to fight against anyone with force powers til after he was trained .
Rey is not like any force user. She's just Rey. She doesn't make any sense. They should have written her character differently and toned her down a great deal but it would change a great deal of the new films. They were written bad and they're catching some shit for it.
At NINE YEARS OLD though? lol. The only human capable of flying death pods at 1000 mph?
His mom getting fucked by Force penis to magically create a baby?
None of that stretches the lore too much? C'mon guys.
I actually think it would work if Rey is somehow willed by the Force and in particular Anakin himself from the Netherworld of the Force after Luke shuts himself off. It makes sense because Anakin is not going to just sit there and watch everything he set right be ruined by his idiot grandson.
Thematically it works perfectly too, because Kylo Ren is obsessed with being the next Darth Vader, the irony would be if Anakin chooses Rey to basically inherit his power. So she is basically everything Kylo thought he should be by birthright, that works very well thematically.
I could see that, even though really it doesn't even require that kind much explanation. She's the chosen one/golden child/messiah. Force chose her to end the Dark Side. And what the Force wants, the Force apparently gets it seems.
Simpleton said: Harry Potter is just as much as a mary sue as Rey. Every character who isn't a villain loves him, everytime he's in danger he wins or escapes, and seems to always pull off the impossible without training. Last time I checked Harry Potter being a mary stu never became a meme. The only argument you can possibly make for him not being one is his rough upbringing... and what could you guess Rey was dumped off on some junky planet with no parents and a horrible lifestyle.
I'm not a hypocrite, I like Harry Potter. I also like TFA and TLJ. Rey isn't a perfectly written character but I can't believe how big of a deal people are suddenly making of this trope that's been in sci-fi and fantasy for a long time as if it's some new thing that's promoting SJW propaganda.
No. Rey was a good fighter both with a staff and a lightsaber, a good mechanic and seemed to know the MF better than Han himself (for f***'s sake), a good pilot, a good shot, a good droid interpreter, and a good force user better than Kylo (for f***'s sake again!).
All in the first film.
Harry was a good broom rider and quidditch player, sort of... He caught the snitch or rather, it landed in his mouth so it was more accidental than a deed of skill. Hermione was more book-smart.
Simpleton said: Harry Potter is just as much as a mary sue as Rey. Every character who isn't a villain loves him, everytime he's in danger he wins or escapes, and seems to always pull off the impossible without training. Last time I checked Harry Potter being a mary stu never became a meme. The only argument you can possibly make for him not being one is his rough upbringing... and what could you guess Rey was dumped off on some junky planet with no parents and a horrible lifestyle.
I'm not a hypocrite, I like Harry Potter. I also like TFA and TLJ. Rey isn't a perfectly written character but I can't believe how big of a deal people are suddenly making of this trope that's been in sci-fi and fantasy for a long time as if it's some new thing that's promoting SJW propaganda.
No. Rey was a good fighter both with a staff and a lightsaber, a good mechanic and seemed to know the MF better than Han himself (for f***'s sake), a good pilot, a good shot, a good droid interpreter, and a good force user. All in the first film.
Harry was a good broom rider and quidditch player, sort of... He caught the snitch or rather, it landed in his mouth so it was more accidental than a deed of skill. Hermione was more book-smart.
All that stuff is text book golden child/chosen one archetype stuff, lol.
Right down to the tee. "Lucky things" just seem to happen to them, and they are resented by others who are basically jealous of them being so great, they are good at most everything.
My personal theory on Rey is that she is chosen by Anakin to inherit his power as the Chosen One if there absolutely needs to be a spelt out explanation. That would bring a lot of things full circle and it fits within Buddhist/Eastern philosophies that Star Wars very obviously "borrows" from.
The only lesson these characters typically learn is that they should never doubt themselves because they're always right. It's basically the only thing Neo learns in the Matrix. He is the Compu-Jesus and he was wrong to even doubt that himself, let alone other characters like Cipher and Agent Smith who doubt him, those two are really wrong lol. That's the moral of the story, the only "wrong" thing Neo does in the movie is ever doubt himself, and even then everything works out great for him, lol. His plan to save Morphues, the entire execution of it, is 100% correct, even though no one agrees with him. His choice to stare down Agent Smith and fight him is 100% even though he is specifically told NOT to do this. And when he should die by the "rules" of that Matrix, he basically doesn't, lol, cuz Neo. And love. But mostly Neo.
Simpleton said: Harry Potter is just as much as a mary sue as Rey. Every character who isn't a villain loves him, everytime he's in danger he wins or escapes, and seems to always pull off the impossible without training. Last time I checked Harry Potter being a mary stu never became a meme. The only argument you can possibly make for him not being one is his rough upbringing... and what could you guess Rey was dumped off on some junky planet with no parents and a horrible lifestyle.
I'm not a hypocrite, I like Harry Potter. I also like TFA and TLJ. Rey isn't a perfectly written character but I can't believe how big of a deal people are suddenly making of this trope that's been in sci-fi and fantasy for a long time as if it's some new thing that's promoting SJW propaganda.
No. Rey was a good fighter both with a staff and a lightsaber, a good mechanic and seemed to know the MF better than Han himself (for f***'s sake), a good pilot, a good shot, a good droid interpreter, and a good force user better than Kylo (for f***'s sake again!).
All in the first film.
Harry was a good broom rider and quidditch player, sort of... He caught the snitch or rather, it landed in his mouth so it was more accidental than a deed of skill. Hermione was more book-smart.
In the first half of the series whenever confronted with a threat there's always some convenience that gets him out of it and it isn't until the 4th movie where he fails at something. It isn't until the very end of the series where he can solve stuff on his own without conveniences and generous writing.
mZuzek said: Anyway, this has dragged on and I've already addressed all the points you're trying to make. I'm tired now - both tired of debating The Last Jedi as I really don't care about it much anymore, and tired of you know, staying awake and stuff.
So I'm going to sleep now, as I begin to get ready for what will be a pretty special day tomorrow because I'm gonna watch two really cool movies (a lot better than debating all this crap here if you ask me). So goodbye.
What two movies are you going to be watching? Just curious.
Edit: Honestly, I'm done talking about this too. It's become pointless.
You're wrong about Anakin. Any force user has a sort of intuition and higher than normal reflexes but it doesn't give them any hidden knowledge like how to fight with a light saber well enough to win against a trained and gifted force user. They can be gifted or talented at many things but they have to learn it. Anakin knew how to tinker with machines because he learned it like everyone else. He wasn't able to fight against anyone with force powers til after he was trained .
Rey is not like any force user. She's just Rey. She doesn't make any sense. They should have written her character differently and toned her down a great deal but it would change a great deal of the new films. They were written bad and they're catching some shit for it.
At NINE YEARS OLD though? lol. The only human capable of flying death pods at 1000 mph?
His mom getting fucked by Force penis to magically create a baby?
None of that stretches the lore too much? C'mon guys.
I actually think it would work if Rey is somehow willed by the Force and in particular Anakin himself from the Netherworld of the Force after Luke shuts himself off. It makes sense because Anakin is not going to just sit there and watch everything he set right be ruined by his idiot grandson.
Thematically it works perfectly too, because Kylo Ren is obsessed with being the next Darth Vader, the irony would be if Anakin chooses Rey to basically inherit his power. So she is basically everything Kylo thought he should be by birthright, that works very well thematically.
I could see that, even though really it doesn't even require that kind much explanation. She's the chosen one/golden child/messiah. Force chose her to end the Dark Side. And what the Force wants, the Force apparently gets it seems.
it makes sense within that universe. I wouldn't dismiss what a kid can do so easily. I read of a few real life kids who commanded troops and won battles so well that they were awarded for it. I've also seen some smart ones.
It would of have been better explained if the ghost of one of the jedi trained her (which is possible) or was trained by another force user that came across her when she was young and helped raise her..
So you're assuming that everyone is a sexist because they don't like Rey? Yeah. That makes perfect sense.
I wouldn't call Harry Potter, he just survived against the bad guy because of his parents. He was
Luke wasn't a Gary Stu. He lost most of his major fights and he had to rely heavily on his allies just to survive. Sure he falls into the chosen one tropes but he's fairly weak in most of the films. Rey is very much a Mary Sue. She had no training and used advanced force powers/won in light saber fight against a dark force user who was trained by Luke. People are more upset of the breaking of sw canon and characters who don't make any sense in the sw universe.
Luke was only a cliche, but no problem with that, he is a man after all.
We're not calling Luke a Gary Stu I hope. If so, I recommend a viewing of the following which illustrate/explain why Rey is a Sue and Luke is not: