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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Azuren said:
Nem said:

There's nothing to salvage. The actors are too old for another go.

The ship has sailed now, until they decide to call this trilogy non-canon and redo the whole thing with other actors.

 

Or reinstate the extended universe. Lol

I disagree. I feel it could easily be salvaged if they stopped working about portraying their female lead as perfect and invincible. In fact, it'd be a tragedy and a pretty deep low for the protagonists if Rei was killed by Kylo Ren early in the third movie.

 

Imagine placing that burden on the much better written Finn: giving him a lightsaber, explaining his skill as a storm trooper as force sensitivity, having Like train an imperfect candidate instead of a damn Mary Sue OC (Don't Steal). His realism (often portrayed as cowardice, which is rightly so considering a realistic response to the events would be to GTFO of dodge) makes him a much more relatable character, and watch his ascent into the status of Jedi would be all the more appealing.

 

Honestly, I feel like almost every problem in the story comes back to little Miss Perfect. Just from the first movie:

 

1. Magnificent in close quarters combat. Justifiable, considering her upbringing.

2. Naturally skilled in mechanics. Could be explained for force sensitivity.

3. Arguably better pilot than Han. She maneuvered through a damn Star Destroyer while dealing with planetary gravity. Unacceptable, as she's never tried to leave the planet and has only piloted small transport vehicles.

4. Knows the Millennium Falcon and it's tendencies better than Han and Chewie despite only operating it for a few hours. Abso-fucking-lutely not.

5. First time firing a blaster hits its mark on the second shot. Proceeds to have Han-level accuracy from then on. Could be explained by force sensitivity, but we've got a fucking list of amazing accomplishments already, making it more and more obvious that they just wanted her to succeed.

6. Special enough that a lightsaber passed from father to son should now be passed to her despite not having any confirmed connection to the Skywalker Family. Should she be confirmed to be part of the family, that'd be even more points towards Mary Sue.

7. Full understanding of the usage of the Jedi Mind Trick DESPITE HAVING NO TRAINING OF THE TECHNIQUE, NO KNOWLEDGE OF ITS EXISTENCE, AND GETTING RIGHT ON HER SECOND TRY.

8. Managed to use the Force Pull, again with no training on the technique or knowledge of its existence. This one was shown to be on her first attempt.

9. Managed to best a trained dark Jedi (who killed an entire school of trained Jedi, mind you) in lightsaber combat THE VERY FIRST TIME SHE PICKED THE WEAPON UP.

10. SHES SO GODDAMN THAT CHEWBACCA WANTS TO BE HER BEST FRIEND AND TRAVEL WITH HER IN THE FALCON, WHICH SHE OWNS NOW?

 

Seriously, fuck Rei.

It amazes me that there are so many people who do not want to admit she is a Mary Sue.  It's just so obvious.  I think it is those who want so badly to love these films, and admitting that, as well as the huge plotholes in this new film (not just nitpicky one that are in every movie), they know it will hurt their love of the films.  SW deserves better than a Mary Sue.  Like I have said before, it is just so sad because Daisy Ridley is a good actress.  She actually makes you want to like Rey.  But, when you realize that she's just a Mary Sue, it's almost impossible to like her.  In this movie, because of the revelation of who her parents are, and because she only got a 5 min lesson from Luke, it drives the Mary Sue aspect even more.

I know you haven't watched the film, so I won't spoil why this happens, but she actually picks up a big pile of boulders with absolutely no effort and barely any concentration whatsoever.  Remember, this is after just a 5 min lesson from Luke, which didn't even include lifting objects.  It pisses you off even more when you think about how hard it was for Luke to do 3 smaller ones.  Or how Yoda had to concentrate hard to lift the X-Wing.  Or how even Kylo has had to have a decade or more worth's of training to be equal to Rey.



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>69%

Nice



It should get what it deserves. They wouldn't make movies like this if they knew it damaged the brand or hurt their wallet.



spurgeonryan said:
thismeintiel said:

Sadly, yes.  There is really no way to cover up for what TLJ did.  Luke is dead, with a poor send off, so I doubt he will be returning, even in Jedi ghost form. Rey is no one, so she'll continue to be a Mary Sue.  Kylo's redemption has just been shot to shit, so now we're right back to Rey good, Kylo bad, and I'm not really looking forward to that fight.  You know, since she can always take him on.  Nor am I looking forward to Kylo and Hux whining at each other over who is in charge. Though, I'm sure there will be more cut animals to push toys.

Trying to just force characters to be who they weren't in TLJ and/or ignore plot points, might seem like a good fix, but it still will be jarring.  And the amount of writing and dialogue to cover up some of those flaws would be massive.   The best bet would just be to remake TLJ, keeping what little worked, but reshooting most of the film.  Of course, that won't happen.

Personally, I think they are just going to continue like nothing happened.  Have the story go wherever it goes, without talking much about the "revelations" in TLJ, even if some character's behaviors are off from TLJ.  It doesn't help that one of the people put in charge of fixing it is the writer of the disjointed messes that are BvS and JL.  All I know is I'm not watching the next one unless I can get in for free.  Might not even then. 

God damn it! I missed All spoilers till just now. Luke dies,  he is not the father,  and his whole life he had to live on a shitty island. 

 

Just hearing that he dies though ruins it all for me. 

Sorry, man.  At least I saved you the price of admission.  Seriously, wait til it hits Netflix if you are still interested.

And really, it's not like any of those things ruin the film.  They could have been masterfully done.  With Luke redeeming the folly of his thought at the end and one last grand display of his power, but still ultimately costing his life to save the rebels.  Unfortunately, it was horribly handled.  With a lot of other horribly handled plotlines that go nowhere.

Aura7541 said:
Rey feels like a Kirito to me. A Mary Sue/Gary Stu wish fulfillment character with very little development and contrived achievements. There's a person named Troy Leavitt who suggested several adjustments that would make TLJ a better movie.

That's cause she is.  And doesn't really take much thought to come up with something better. 

I've kinda rewritten the whole thing in my head.  Including reducing the Order vs Rebel ship down to a 15-20 min scene, so more takes place at the base.  Kylo actually redeeming himself, while Rey has to make a sacrifice to save the rebels.  That sacrifice doesn't include dying, BTW.  Rey no longer being a Mary Sue.  Luke having a much better reason to leave for the island.  And a much better sendoff to Luke and Ackbar.



thismeintiel said:
Azuren said:

I disagree. I feel it could easily be salvaged if they stopped working about portraying their female lead as perfect and invincible. In fact, it'd be a tragedy and a pretty deep low for the protagonists if Rei was killed by Kylo Ren early in the third movie.

 

Imagine placing that burden on the much better written Finn: giving him a lightsaber, explaining his skill as a storm trooper as force sensitivity, having Like train an imperfect candidate instead of a damn Mary Sue OC (Don't Steal). His realism (often portrayed as cowardice, which is rightly so considering a realistic response to the events would be to GTFO of dodge) makes him a much more relatable character, and watch his ascent into the status of Jedi would be all the more appealing.

 

Honestly, I feel like almost every problem in the story comes back to little Miss Perfect. Just from the first movie:

 

1. Magnificent in close quarters combat. Justifiable, considering her upbringing.

2. Naturally skilled in mechanics. Could be explained for force sensitivity.

3. Arguably better pilot than Han. She maneuvered through a damn Star Destroyer while dealing with planetary gravity. Unacceptable, as she's never tried to leave the planet and has only piloted small transport vehicles.

4. Knows the Millennium Falcon and it's tendencies better than Han and Chewie despite only operating it for a few hours. Abso-fucking-lutely not.

5. First time firing a blaster hits its mark on the second shot. Proceeds to have Han-level accuracy from then on. Could be explained by force sensitivity, but we've got a fucking list of amazing accomplishments already, making it more and more obvious that they just wanted her to succeed.

6. Special enough that a lightsaber passed from father to son should now be passed to her despite not having any confirmed connection to the Skywalker Family. Should she be confirmed to be part of the family, that'd be even more points towards Mary Sue.

7. Full understanding of the usage of the Jedi Mind Trick DESPITE HAVING NO TRAINING OF THE TECHNIQUE, NO KNOWLEDGE OF ITS EXISTENCE, AND GETTING RIGHT ON HER SECOND TRY.

8. Managed to use the Force Pull, again with no training on the technique or knowledge of its existence. This one was shown to be on her first attempt.

9. Managed to best a trained dark Jedi (who killed an entire school of trained Jedi, mind you) in lightsaber combat THE VERY FIRST TIME SHE PICKED THE WEAPON UP.

10. SHES SO GODDAMN THAT CHEWBACCA WANTS TO BE HER BEST FRIEND AND TRAVEL WITH HER IN THE FALCON, WHICH SHE OWNS NOW?

 

Seriously, fuck Rei.

It amazes me that there are so many people who do not want to admit she is a Mary Sue.  It's just so obvious.  I think it is those who want so badly to love these films, and admitting that, as well as the huge plotholes in this new film (not just nitpicky one that are in every movie), they know it will hurt their love of the films.  SW deserves better than a Mary Sue.  Like I have said before, it is just so sad because Daisy Ridley is a good actress.  She actually makes you want to like Rey.  But, when you realize that she's just a Mary Sue, it's almost impossible to like her.  In this movie, because of the revelation of who her parents are, and because she only got a 5 min lesson from Luke, it drives the Mary Sue aspect even more.

I know you haven't watched the film, so I won't spoil why this happens, but she actually picks up a big pile of boulders with absolutely no effort and barely any concentration whatsoever.  Remember, this is after just a 5 min lesson from Luke, which didn't even include lifting objects.  It pisses you off even more when you think about how hard it was for Luke to do 3 smaller ones.  Or how Yoda had to concentrate hard to lift the X-Wing.  Or how even Kylo has had to have a decade or more worth's of training to be equal to Rey.

The most frustrating part of all of it is the fact that Finn, a significantly better character, IS RIGHT FUCKING THERE. USE HIM.



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Love the editorializing in the title. It'll end up well over $1b anyway, probably $1.5b, regardless what the core SW fanbase thinks about the film.



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StarOcean said:
Mr.GameCrazy said:

Are you saying I'm wrong for liking The Last Jedi? 

That’s what he’s saying. 

Let me tell you something, the Star Wars community is literal cancer. 40 years of lunatics, not fans, absolute lunatics, have led up to the pile of shit you’ll see here. They have no knowledge of film making or movies in general -and if they claim they do they’re lying in order to appear like they have authority to their opinion, they don’t. They’re hypocrites and liars and will do anything to attack any new ideas or stories if it doesn’t align with their expectations. Why? My theory is that they’re mentally handicapped but feel free to come up with whatever else.

The best way to be a Star Wars fan is to avoid other ‘fans’. If they think the original trilogy is this perfect masterpiece of filmmaking, they’re stupid and should be avoided like the plague. The ones that tell you what you can and can’t like, like this asshole, avoid like the plague. If they think all the movies are perfect -avoid them like the plague. General rule, avoid Star Wars fans like the plague. They’re assholes who only like 3 (sometimes only 2) movies about religious space wizards with lazer katanas who fight evil. The rest of the movies that are about religious space wizards with lazer katanas suck -to them. 

They’ll try to debate you about stupid shit too. They’ll bring up books no one in their right mind would read, episodes of cartoons that explain this, or use “plotholes”, “logic”, and some throw away words that involve filmmaking. Rest assure, they have no clue what they’re saying. It’s the equivalent word diarrhea. So if they tell you you’re wrong -well, I mean these are the same people who, for a while, were completely fine with a horse being a rebel fighter, Luke being cloned and the clone being called “Luuuke”, and similar stupid shit; they have no ground to stand on -just tell them you have the high ground.  

Well that is an interesting theory. Mine was a much simpler one where every star wars release they go to the cinema for a chance to mate after the movie.

If the movie doesn't fit the typical formula they don't get in the mood to mate (kind of like an animal dancing funny to win over a female).

Then they are crabby for a few months knowing they went home sexless and will not get a chance to leave their parents house to mate again for another 2 years.

OK i know I am of the point so i'll stick with yours lol.



 

 

StarOcean said:
Lucas-Rio said:

 

Cut the BS. Nobody ever started to talk about the average EU.

THL just suck as a movie, and sucks even more as a star wars movie. Plain and simple. It has giant hole in its plots, uninteresting story, the destruction of Luke's characters, a uninteresting villain that is  much weaker than the heros and isn't even respected by its own troops.

It's just shitty.

Yep, it’s the worst movie ever made. Ever ever ever. It’s got the biggest plotholes ever. The plots bad because the plot is bad. And the story is bad and full of holes. Holesss. Jesus Fucking Christ. You’d swear with your fearful obsession with holes that you have trypophobia. The movie is fine, buy a latter and get over it. 

The funny thing is one of the MAIN plot holes was pretty much in the original trilogy too. Til they made the prequels to explain some of it (ironically adidng other plot holes lol)

 

The thing people forget is Disney will milk this cow. A huge plot hole in one movie could be a side movie on its own.

 

The other annoying thing is people talking Mark Hamill didn't like the movie. Well woopie fucking do. If he hated it so much why sell yourself out for the money? Because he NEEDS money. if he didn't need the cash I am sure he could have pushed back with threats to quit and they would have changed it or fired him. Guess he did not want to be fired.



 

 

Aeolus451 said:
It should get what it deserves. They wouldn't make movies like this if they knew it damaged the brand or hurt their wallet.

It's not going to hurt their wallet, it's making hundreds of millions of dollars.



thismeintiel said:

It amazes me that there are so many people who do not want to admit she is a Mary Sue.  It's just so obvious.  I think it is those who want so badly to love these films, and admitting that, as well as the huge plotholes in this new film (not just nitpicky one that are in every movie), they know it will hurt their love of the films.  SW deserves better than a Mary Sue.  Like I have said before, it is just so sad because Daisy Ridley is a good actress.  She actually makes you want to like Rey.  But, when you realize that she's just a Mary Sue, it's almost impossible to like her.  In this movie, because of the revelation of who her parents are, and because she only got a 5 min lesson from Luke, it drives the Mary Sue aspect even more.

I know you haven't watched the film, so I won't spoil why this happens, but she actually picks up a big pile of boulders with absolutely no effort and barely any concentration whatsoever.  Remember, this is after just a 5 min lesson from Luke, which didn't even include lifting objects.  It pisses you off even more when you think about how hard it was for Luke to do 3 smaller ones.  Or how Yoda had to concentrate hard to lift the X-Wing.  Or how even Kylo has had to have a decade or more worth's of training to be equal to Rey.

See to me reactions like this are  like a premature ejaculation. There is one movie left and being a half glass full kind of guy I hope they answer these outrageous talents she has lol. They pretty much killed off all the original trilogy main characters so this is the time to answer that question.