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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel-Palestine: Which "solution" do you prefer?

Aeolus451 said:
I prefer a Israeli state because they would allow everyone access to the holy sites without trying to kill them or block access.

You are so naive. The Israelis have shown time and time again they give zero shires about Palestinians. They will treat them like the blacks in America were treated. Segregation hostility police brutality all of it. If you are ok with Palestinians suffering then that would be best for you. But even now Israel illegally occupies land and attacks hospitals and schools and is not hesitant to kill children. 



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h2ohno said:
Ka-pi96 said:

They haven't been there for much longer though... they literally hadn't been there for thousands of years.

And the facts are you support terrorist scum. Simple.

It is simply not true that the Jews 'hadn't been there' for thousands of years.  There has never been a single period in the last 3,000 years in which there weren't Jews in Israel/Palestine.  The leader of the Jewish people around the world continued to be the Nasi (prince or president) of Israel, for hundreds of years until the Byzantines abolished the institution.  There were many Jewish revolts in Israel/Palestine against the Romans, Byzantines, and Persians for hundreds of years after Judea was destroyed.  There were Jews there when the Muslims conquered the land in the 600s.  There were Jews there when the Crusaders conquered it in the Middle Ages.  Safed has been the home of the Jewish kabbalists for the last 500 years.  The Jewish community of Hebron continued to live there uninterrupted for 3,000 years until the Hebron massacre of 1929.  Every census of Jerusalem from the 1800s shows that the city had a large Jewish majority then.

Exactly...

Thank you for a much needed detailed historical perspective. I didn't even know that the rulers of Judea were called nasi. This is obvious but considering the serious historical ignorance of some, I must point out that the name "nazi" used to describe national socialism has nothing to do with the title of nasi used in Judea. Obvious but it still needed to be pointed out.



ironmanDX said:
VGPolyglot said:

No.

I see that you live in Canada and you're 19. I'll assume that you don't own your own home yet. Are you an Inuit or Metis?

 

If you answered no, best you better tell your parents to give your house to a Canadian aboriginal who is a descendant to the tribe that used to own that land mate.

 

If you answered yes,are you going to follow your heritage and start kicking families out of homes? Of course you're not.

Humanity has made mistakes as a whole. We need to push forward as a whole. Why bring up shit and continue the conflict? Such backwards thinking.

It's sad that we need a solution. There should have already been one. Like the ones already presented to palastinians leaders. SEVERAL TIMES...

You are so brainwashed it's not even funny. You think Israel is so innocent with how they kill children and occupy illegal lands and is living there life while Palestinians are starving. Israel is guilty and just wants the genocide of Palestinians to be over so they can rule the entirety of the region. They want to just kill off every last Palestinian



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CrazyGamer2017 said:
h2ohno said:

It is simply not true that the Jews 'hadn't been there' for thousands of years.  There has never been a single period in the last 3,000 years in which there weren't Jews in Israel/Palestine.  The leader of the Jewish people around the world continued to be the Nasi (prince or president) of Israel, for hundreds of years until the Byzantines abolished the institution.  There were many Jewish revolts in Israel/Palestine against the Romans, Byzantines, and Persians for hundreds of years after Judea was destroyed.  There were Jews there when the Muslims conquered the land in the 600s.  There were Jews there when the Crusaders conquered it in the Middle Ages.  Safed has been the home of the Jewish kabbalists for the last 500 years.  The Jewish community of Hebron continued to live there uninterrupted for 3,000 years until the Hebron massacre of 1929.  Every census of Jerusalem from the 1800s shows that the city had a large Jewish majority then.

Exactly...

Thank you for a much needed detailed historical perspective. I didn't even know that the rulers of Judea were called nasi. This is obvious but considering the serious historical ignorance of some, I must point out that the name "nazi" used to describe national socialism has nothing to do with the title of nasi used in Judea. Obvious but it still needed to be pointed out.

It isn't pronounced 'Nazi.'   The term is used to described the current president of Israel.

The rulers of Judea weren't called Nasi.  When Israel/Judea was independent the rulers were kings.  The Nasi was instituted after their independence was crushed partially to serve as a liaison between the Jewish community of Judea and the Roman and Byzantine empires which were the actual rulers.  However, the authority of the Nasi was widely accepted by the global Jewish community as he was the leader of the community in Israel, which was still considered the center of Jewish life, and because the Nasi was believed to be descended from the Davidic dynasty, which meant that they were considered worthy of being king and made the institution largely hereditary, passed from father to son.



The people here seem to think Israel is so goddamn innocent. Then they bring up history. Do they know that a lot of these Jews fled Europe and were seeking refuge in Palestine. While the Palestinians didn't move from anywhere and are still there though being oppressed. They say the nation with the support of the world no. 1 military and so much money and military power is being somehow oppressed by people who are starving and don't have clean water food education etc. The Palestinians that live there have ancestors going all the way back and include Christians Jews and Muslims. The new Jews are the ones that came from Europe. So in terms of historical ownership it is still the Palestinians right. But that is all in the past that would be like saying give the natives back there land and all the other US population goes back where their ancestors came from. But in recent relevant history Israel has continually expanded land. I would like these Israeli sympathisers to look at reality and in reality Israel gained more and more land and has more resources and Palestine has been shrinking oppressed and it's people are living in a pitiable state. Reality is telling us that it is not Palestine but rather Israel that is the oppressor and wants the end of all Palestinians. They can't wait for a one state option where they just go wild and oppress Palestinians for all their worth. Or no solution until they wipe every last Palestinian with their superior military.
I think the best thing would be to have a world council regulate this region with none of the two factions having any control. This council has the voice and opinion of every state so that no one is discriminated like US would surely favour Israel while Iran would Palestine etc. The region to have no army. Then wait a century or two until they start living together knowing each other and thinking they belong together. Then have an election for a joint state where they decide themselves and everyone has a stake in doing well so they themselves don't want to discriminate each other. The only way to end hostility is to force people to love together so they start seeing each other as humans. (P.S feminists triggered why I said human instead of huwoman or huunknowngender).



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deskpro2k3 said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

So the Jews have been there for much longer than the Palestinians but that must not be taken into account, fuck history right?

But the Palestinians have been there for a shorter time but that must be taken into account, history must be upheld?

Ok, you can hold double standards in your opinion but not only that is totally wrong and unfair, it is also completely unrealistic.

Let's get to the real issue here. You support the palestinians no matter what violence and terror they use, no matter what they would do if they had the power Israel had. And you know what? That's fine, it's your opinion so to that I'll oppose my opinion which is: I'm glad Israel have their land back, I'm glad they are more powerful and can defend themselves against those terrorists, I'm glad the US acknowledged their capital. We can discuss opinions rather than facts if you prefer, I don't have a problem with that either.

 

Ka-pi96 said:

They haven't been there for much longer though... they literally hadn't been there for thousands of years.

And the facts are you support terrorist scum. Simple.

 

Who had it first doesn't solve the dilemma. The first major population to the land was the Canaanites, then the Philistines (Evolved into Palestine) migrated, then the Hebrews from across the Euphrates.

The British promised a Palestinian homeland both to resident Arabs and to Jewish immigrants. The Arabs had helped the British overthrow the Ottoman Turks and were promised control of their land in return for their allegiance. At the same time the British promised the same land to the Jews. IJS

This isn't entirely accurate.  The Canaanites were there first, divided into many city-states  There is some debate as to whether the Hebrews/Israelites were invaders or if they grew out of the Canaanites.  The Philistines were nomadic invaders, and the term Philistine means invader.  They were primarily along the coast, and were wiped out around the time the Kingdom of Israel was unified.  The modern-day Palestinians have nothing to do with the ancient Philistines.  They are the descendants of the Arab peoples who have migrated into Israel/Palestine since the Muslim conquest of the 600s.  Some are descendants of the ancient Jewish and Christian inhabitants.  Some migrated into the land relatively recently.

Both Arabs and Jews helped Britain defeat the Ottomans in Israel/Palestine, and Britain made promises to both peoples.  The leader of the Arabs at the time, Emir Faisal, who was known as the King of Syria and who Britain made its promises to, supported the Zionists and thought that the Arabs would benefit from it.  What truly concerned him and the larger Arab world at the time was Syria, which was what Britain had truly promised them.  The betrayal was Britain's acquiescence to French control of Syria, which forestalled Arab independence there for a time.  As France did not consider itself bound by British promises, Faisal was made king of Iraq in compensation.



Eagle367 said:
Aeolus451 said:
I prefer a Israeli state because they would allow everyone access to the holy sites without trying to kill them or block access.

You are so naive. The Israelis have shown time and time again they give zero shires about Palestinians. They will treat them like the blacks in America were treated. Segregation hostility police brutality all of it. If you are ok with Palestinians suffering then that would be best for you. But even now Israel illegally occupies land and attacks hospitals and schools and is not hesitant to kill children. 

You have that backwards. The palestinians would be the ones to do that sort of stuff. They have their own terrorist groups dedicated to killing jews and destroying Israel. They advocate for violence and commit violence at every turn while the jews just want to be left alone. If it were to become a whole Israel, the jews would let anyone access to the holy sites while not attacking them or anything. While history clearly shows what happens when palestinians are in control of those places. In the long term, a whole Israel is the best choice. 



Aeolus451 said:
Eagle367 said:

You are so naive. The Israelis have shown time and time again they give zero shires about Palestinians. They will treat them like the blacks in America were treated. Segregation hostility police brutality all of it. If you are ok with Palestinians suffering then that would be best for you. But even now Israel illegally occupies land and attacks hospitals and schools and is not hesitant to kill children. 

You have that backwards. The palestinians would be the ones to do that sort of stuff. They have their own terrorist groups dedicated to killing jews and destroying Israel. They advocate for violence and commit violence at every turn while the jews just want to be left alone. If it were to become a whole Israel, the jews would let anyone access to the holy sites while not attacking them or anything. While history clearly shows what happens when palestinians are in control of those places. In the long term, a whole Israel is the best choice. 

 

You have that backwards.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/05/07/israels-new-justice-minister-considers-all-palestinians-to-be-the-enemy/

Israeli justice minister, Ayelet Shaked says "mothers of all Palestinians should also be killed." She's clearly advocating for violence and genocide.

Even before all this mess, what about the Israeli terrorism against the British. https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-opens-secret-files-about-jewish-terrorists-in-1940s/



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deskpro2k3 said:
Aeolus451 said:

You have that backwards. The palestinians would be the ones to do that sort of stuff. They have their own terrorist groups dedicated to killing jews and destroying Israel. They advocate for violence and commit violence at every turn while the jews just want to be left alone. If it were to become a whole Israel, the jews would let anyone access to the holy sites while not attacking them or anything. While history clearly shows what happens when palestinians are in control of those places. In the long term, a whole Israel is the best choice. 

 

You have that backwards.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/05/07/israels-new-justice-minister-considers-all-palestinians-to-be-the-enemy/

Israeli justice minister, Ayelet Shaked says "mothers of all Palestinians should also be killed." She's clearly advocating for violence and genocide.

Even before all this mess, what about the Israeli terrorism against the British. https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-opens-secret-files-about-jewish-terrorists-in-1940s/

Oh the 1940s? You had to dig deep for that nugget.

I'm pretty sure that Palestinians have said and done worse. Again, it's best if Israelis control the area. They are the least likely to kill people. 



Aeolus451 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

You have that backwards.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/05/07/israels-new-justice-minister-considers-all-palestinians-to-be-the-enemy/

Israeli justice minister, Ayelet Shaked says "mothers of all Palestinians should also be killed." She's clearly advocating for violence and genocide.

Even before all this mess, what about the Israeli terrorism against the British. https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-opens-secret-files-about-jewish-terrorists-in-1940s/

Oh the 1940s? You had to dig deep for that nugget.

I'm pretty sure that Palestinians have said and done worse. Again, it's best if Israelis control the area. They are the least likely to kill people. 

 

How about the present day. Terrorizing Palestinians.



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