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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel-Palestine: Which "solution" do you prefer?

Qwark said:
Make Israël part 2 an European nation and build somewhere in the UK or the less populated parts of an European nation. Palestina becomes a nation again. And since most Israelis are well educated and pretty smart, integration wouldn't be a huge issue.

Your idea is good... but in theory only. Cause in real life it would not work.

First because Israel has been their land for several millennia and you would never convince the French for example to abandon their land and they have been in France for less time than the Jews have been in the lands of Israel.

Second cause I don't see any country in Europe or elsewhere to simply get a portion of their land removed to give to another people even if it is to fix a huge problem. I would love to have a state like Israel here in Europe, as you say they are educated and smart people and they would be a good neighbor to have as we share a lot of values with them.

Like I said your idea is fundamentally speaking, good but very impractical.



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CrazyGamer2017 said:

You forgot to mention why Israel has been occupying patches of land outside the territory allotted to them in 1947. You forgot to mention how the Arab states attacked Israel with the objective of total annihilation of the Jewish state. If they had succeeded, I can't imagine how many men, women and children would have perished or worse...

So Israel that is militarily speaking superior pushed them all back and as punishment took some land (though It was probably as much to make a buffer zone for protection as it was punishment) because the only language their enemies speak is violence.

People need to realize one thing: Israel can ONLY be militarily speaking powerful cause ANY other sort of Israel would have simply ceased to exist so for those who imagine Israel acting differently, know that there could not be any other Israel with the type of neighbors the Jewish state has. The rest of the world is slowly beginning to realize that with all the terrorist attacks the west has had to endure but that's nothing compared to Israel who has its nose almost literally in the mess the west has only had to endure from a distance.

I realize why Israel are occupying the land that they are ever since the Six-Day War but that does not mean that they should take the lands for themselves since we're supposed to be passed the barbaric age of imperialism and expansionism ... 

If the entire international community is going to chide Russia for ascending Crimea for which they themselves have democratically voted for then they should be doing the same if not more so since Israel are trying to claim these Israeli settlements for themselves WITHOUT even the consent of a relevant party ...

FWIW, these Israeli settlements effectively stopped being buffer zones since Israel has decided to build civilian infrastructure and the UN straight up declares such action to be illegal so how about Israel back right off and move back to the previously agreed borders ? 

Israel can both have a powerful military WITHOUT being an imperialist such as the US. Did the US try claiming Japan for itself even though the latter was invading the aggressor's territory much like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict ? 



No current solution will bring peace. Hamas, which controls Gaza, doesn't even pay lip service to the idea of peace and turned Gaza into a terror state whose entire economy is focused on attacking Israel rather than trying to make life better for Gazans. The same thing would happen in the West Bank if Israel pulled out.

And even if Hamas was a non-factor, the evidence strongly suggests that Fatah still sees the creation of a Palestinian State as part of a multi-phase process in the destruction of Israel rather than an end-goal in and of itself. They continue to spew the worst forms of anti-Semitism, teach their children in schools and on state television that there is nothing more heroic than dying while killing Jews, even small children, continue to honor and name streets and stadiums after people who murder children, continue to pay lifetime salaries to terrorist murderers - the more innocent people murdered, the higher the salary. They continue to deny Israel's right to exist in any borders, whether the current borders, the post-1949 borders, or the UN's proposed 1947 borders. And they refuse to acknowledge Jewish history, continuously denying that there is any Jewish connection whatsover to Jerusalem, the Temple Mount, the Western Wall, Rachel's Tomb, the list goes on. Abbas has turned down a number of very generous offers of a Palestinian state with much of east Jerusalem as its capital because he can't sign a piece of paper declaring the conflict over. And he has directly incited violence and murder himself with his statements that no Jew will be allowed to "desecrate" the Temple Mount "with their filthy feet" - Abbas' exact words just 2 years ago when a growing number of Jews wanted to visit the holiest site in Judaism.

And even if the Palestinians were completely ready for peace, Iran is still committed to Israel's destruction, as its its terrorist proxy Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Under the circumstances, any Israeli withdrawal would result in a Hamas or Iranian controlled terrorist state like Gaza or Lebanon which would continue to be at continuous war with Israel. Even if Hamas and Iran were removed as a factor, Fatah has spent so many decades teaching its people that Jews are subhuman and that all of 'Palestine' must be 'liberated' from the river to the sea that the population would never except a peace deal that leaves Israel still around as anything other than a betrayal. And with the weakness of Abbas' Palestinian Authority the leaders would be killed. It doesn't help that the PA is one of the most corrupt, anti-democratic, and autocratic governments in the world which and is already hated by the Palestinians because of it.

The PA's decades of brainwashing its people to see killing Jews as the most heroic thing a man or woman can do in their life makes the other solutions untenable as well. So much violence would follow any attempt at a federation or one-state solution.

Peace is pretty much impossible this generation. The first step has to be changing the PA media and education systems to remove all anti-Semitism and acknowledge the Jewish history and connection with Israel and its holy sites going back 3,000 years. That will probably take a generation. Only then can peace be feasible, and Israelis and Palestinians can decide for themselves which solution would work best.

In my opinion, the entire PA needs to be be replaced before peace is possible. Both Hamas and Fatah need to be removed from power and replaced with a government that isn't made up of terrorists.



Ka-pi96 said:

You're having a laugh right? israel didn't even exist a hundred years ago. They haven't been there for long, Jerusalem hasn't been their capital either. They're just a bunch of violent genocidal nutjobs that stole the land. They're literally the jewish equivalent of isis.

Ok if you're going to ignore basic history then it becomes impossible to communicate.

The Israel you are referring to was created in 1947 but the land of Israel, the land of the Jewish people has been their land for 4000 years and Jerusalem has been their capital for like 3000 years.

How is it even possible that you don't know this?



CrazyGamer2017 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

You're having a laugh right? israel didn't even exist a hundred years ago. They haven't been there for long, Jerusalem hasn't been their capital either. They're just a bunch of violent genocidal nutjobs that stole the land. They're literally the jewish equivalent of isis.

Ok if you're going to ignore basic history then it becomes impossible to communicate.

The Israel you are referring to was created in 1947 but the land of Israel, the land of the Jewish people has been their land for 4000 years and Jerusalem has been their capital for like 3000 years.

How is it even possible that you don't know this?

Let's get the history straight.  3,000 years ago, there was a state called Israel which had Jerusalem as its capital.  After Israel split into a northern and a southern kingdom were several states called Judah/Judea whose capitals were in Jerusalem.  The people who lived in those states are the people who became known as the Jews.  After Judea was destroyed by the Roman empire and the Jews exiled the Jewish people continued to pray for their return to Jerusalem three times a day every day, and much of Jewish life has continued to revolve around Jerusalem for the last 2,000 years.  Jews break a glass at every wedding to signify that even the joy of a wedding is not complete without Jerusalem.



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Still the same thing I proposed years ago. Give everyone a fair warning and then drop a Nuke on Israel. When 4 asshole factions can't come to a compromise, and they had plenty of time to have one by now, then just remove the thing.

Proposed name for the warhead: "LOL"



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CrazyGamer2017 said:

Ok if you're going to ignore basic history then it becomes impossible to communicate.

The Israel you are referring to was created in 1947 but the land of Israel, the land of the Jewish people has been their land for 4000 years and Jerusalem has been their capital for like 3000 years.

How is it even possible that you don't know this?

Who cares what happened 3000 years ago when civilization was in it's infancy and the idea of sovereignty had yet to exist ? 

The last documented rule of Israel was claimed by the Ottoman empire for nearly 400 years before the British Mandate which as far as I remember was an Islamic dominated state ... 



fatslob-:O said:

I realize why Israel are occupying the land that they are ever since the Six-Day War but that does not mean that they should take the lands for themselves since we're supposed to be passed the barbaric age of imperialism and expansionism ... 

If the entire international community is going to chide Russia for ascending Crimea for which they themselves have democratically voted for then they should be doing the same if not more so since Israel are trying to claim these Israeli settlements for themselves WITHOUT even the consent of a relevant party ...

FWIW, these Israeli settlements effectively stopped being buffer zones since Israel has decided to build civilian infrastructure and the UN straight up declares such action to be illegal so how about Israel back right off and move back to the previously agreed borders ? 

Israel can both have a powerful military WITHOUT being an imperialist such as the US. Did the US try claiming Japan for itself even though the latter was invading the aggressor's territory much like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict ? 

Another example would be France who took some territory from Germany after world war 1 (Alsace-Lorraine) and never returned it...

My point being that this issue depends very much on the country and on the history of the land. And even if we agreed to call Israel imperialists (which I do not), there are precedents by countries like France. Even the US can be considered imperialistic when it made war to the American Natives known as Indians to take their land. And I won't even talk about the UK and Northern Ireland...

As for Israel most of the land there was theirs a very long time ago (Kingdom of Israel and Kingdom of Judah) The Philistines had a strip of land roughly where the Gaza strip is today but the west bank is historically Jewish. So if you refer to the Israel as made by the UN in 1947 then yeah, you have a bit of a point but if you take into account land that was Jewish before it was palestinian then Israel is only taking back land that is historically speaking, theirs. And beyond that, I guess it will become a matter of opinion. Do they have the right to take back what was theirs or not?

I can understand that you disagree but in exchange you must understand that 1: other countries like France, the US, the UK and probably more have taken land from others that was NEVER theirs to begin with, at least Israel is only taking back what was theirs long ago. 2: The real issue here goes beyond the issue of land. Muslims are absolutely mad about the fact that non muslims live and have a state right in the middle of theirs and I'm talking about all the countries surrounding Israel, so the issue here is not just palestine, but to get rid of people that though with the same historical origin (sons of Abraham) as the other people in that region, have DARED to follow their beliefs instead of becoming muslims. Which is why peace is pretty much impossible cause what palestinians really want is the destruction of Israel which is exactly why I can understand that Israel deals with them in a tough way and not only should take the west bank who historically has been theirs but since the palestinians only wish for their destruction, there will never be peace in that region, until the palestinians are driven out of that land. The logic is clear: if there are no palestinians in the west bank there is no war to be waged with the west bank.

Again I can understand your side of the argument, the "legal" situation made by the UN in 1947. But like I'm explaining, this issue goes beyond what was simply legally decided in 1947.

Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 11 December 2017

Focussing only on Jerusalem itself, they should just make that a Vatican City-like independant state. Then it'll belong to nobody. If both can't play ball then neither gets the candy. Everbody happy.

And Trump is an idiot, he just likes to poke bears apparently.



How about no solution? Let them and their God fight it out