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Forums - Nintendo - Xenoblade 2 thoughts (no spoilers)

Sunstrider on 04 December 2017
caffeinade said:
Sunstrider said:

With that said, wouldn't it be more difficult to put in more details on a game where there are lots of things happening at once considering the hardware?

Yeah, Xenoblade has lots of enemies in close proximity.
I don't think the Switch could handle: 3 player characters, 3 blades, 6+ enemies in combat, with large high level enemies running around in the background at BotW detail.
The game is clearly taxing on the hardware: 720p docked and much lower in handheld mode.
It is a launch year game that is built on an engine that was made for a very different architecture, so there is plenty of room to improve.

You do have to admire Monolith Soft's commitment to their vision.
Not many first party devs would be willing to push their hardware quite as far as they have in this title.
Naughty Dog's Uncharted 4 runs at 1080p; imagine if they were willing to push their tech so hard, that they were forced to render at 720p.

I completely agree to everything you just said.



             

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Nuvendil on 04 December 2017
caffeinade said:
Sunstrider said:

With that said, wouldn't it be more difficult to put in more details on a game where there are lots of things happening at once considering the hardware?

Yeah, Xenoblade has lots of enemies in close proximity.
I don't think the Switch could handle: 3 player characters, 3 blades, 6+ enemies in combat, with large high level enemies running around in the background at BotW detail.
The game is clearly taxing on the hardware: 720p docked and much lower in handheld mode.
It is a launch year game that is built on an engine that was made for a very different architecture, so there is plenty of room to improve.

You do have to admire Monolith Soft's commitment to their vision.
Not many first party devs would be willing to push their hardware quite as far as they have in this title.
Naughty Dog's Uncharted 4 runs at 1080p; imagine if they were willing to push their tech so hard, that they were forced to render at 720p.

Yeah, one thing you have to admire with Monolith Soft and Takahashi is ambition.  I mean, his vision for Xenogears and Xenosaga was so grand his publishers at the time wouldn't back his play the whole distance.  And then you look at his goals with Xenoblade on the Wii, the scale and the level of environmental detail within that scale was just beyond what many would have thought the Wii could do.  And then with X, their FIRST HD game, they aimed to build an open world RPG in an alien world that dwarfed many comparable games on more powerful hardware.  While also dabbling in online passive multiplayer and cooperative play.  And then we have 2, where they had from what we can gather just 1.5 or 2 years to work with the Switch hardware in their hands and they didn't back down.  Their ambition is sometimes excessive, but you got to admire their confidence to go for it.  



caffeinade on 04 December 2017
Nuvendil said:
caffeinade said:

Yeah, Xenoblade has lots of enemies in close proximity.
I don't think the Switch could handle: 3 player characters, 3 blades, 6+ enemies in combat, with large high level enemies running around in the background at BotW detail.
The game is clearly taxing on the hardware: 720p docked and much lower in handheld mode.
It is a launch year game that is built on an engine that was made for a very different architecture, so there is plenty of room to improve.

You do have to admire Monolith Soft's commitment to their vision.
Not many first party devs would be willing to push their hardware quite as far as they have in this title.
Naughty Dog's Uncharted 4 runs at 1080p; imagine if they were willing to push their tech so hard, that they were forced to render at 720p.

Yeah, one thing you have to admire with Monolith Soft and Takahashi is ambition.  I mean, his vision for Xenogears and Xenosaga was so grand his publishers at the time wouldn't back his play the whole distance.  And then you look at his goals with Xenoblade on the Wii, the scale and the level of environmental detail within that scale was just beyond what many would have thought the Wii could do.  And then with X, their FIRST HD game, they aimed to build an open world RPG in an alien world that dwarfed many comparable games on more powerful hardware.  While also dabbling in online passive multiplayer and cooperative play.  And then we have 2, where they had from what we can gather just 1.5 or 2 years to work with the Switch hardware in their hands and they didn't back down.  Their ambition is sometimes excessive, but you got to admire their confidence to go for it.  

Imagine what they could've done, had they known the final specs.
We pretty much know the Switch got a late development RAM upgrade; I am sure Monolith Soft would have appreciated that extra GB a bit sooner.



Arminillo on 04 December 2017
Nuvendil said:
caffeinade said:

Yeah, Xenoblade has lots of enemies in close proximity.
I don't think the Switch could handle: 3 player characters, 3 blades, 6+ enemies in combat, with large high level enemies running around in the background at BotW detail.
The game is clearly taxing on the hardware: 720p docked and much lower in handheld mode.
It is a launch year game that is built on an engine that was made for a very different architecture, so there is plenty of room to improve.

You do have to admire Monolith Soft's commitment to their vision.
Not many first party devs would be willing to push their hardware quite as far as they have in this title.
Naughty Dog's Uncharted 4 runs at 1080p; imagine if they were willing to push their tech so hard, that they were forced to render at 720p.

Yeah, one thing you have to admire with Monolith Soft and Takahashi is ambition.  I mean, his vision for Xenogears and Xenosaga was so grand his publishers at the time wouldn't back his play the whole distance.  And then you look at his goals with Xenoblade on the Wii, the scale and the level of environmental detail within that scale was just beyond what many would have thought the Wii could do.  And then with X, their FIRST HD game, they aimed to build an open world RPG in an alien world that dwarfed many comparable games on more powerful hardware.  While also dabbling in online passive multiplayer and cooperative play.  And then we have 2, where they had from what we can gather just 1.5 or 2 years to work with the Switch hardware in their hands and they didn't back down.  Their ambition is sometimes excessive, but you got to admire their confidence to go for it.  

I dont know, I feel like this game didnt have a clear vision, which is its biggest problem. What does it want to be? A shonen? Philosophical? A gacha? Is it an action rpg or realtime turnbased? Should one explore or jump from level to level?

It does all of these things ok to good, but nothing great. I think they just decided to throw in whatever they thought was neat.



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Nuvendil on 04 December 2017
Arminillo said:
Nuvendil said:

Yeah, one thing you have to admire with Monolith Soft and Takahashi is ambition.  I mean, his vision for Xenogears and Xenosaga was so grand his publishers at the time wouldn't back his play the whole distance.  And then you look at his goals with Xenoblade on the Wii, the scale and the level of environmental detail within that scale was just beyond what many would have thought the Wii could do.  And then with X, their FIRST HD game, they aimed to build an open world RPG in an alien world that dwarfed many comparable games on more powerful hardware.  While also dabbling in online passive multiplayer and cooperative play.  And then we have 2, where they had from what we can gather just 1.5 or 2 years to work with the Switch hardware in their hands and they didn't back down.  Their ambition is sometimes excessive, but you got to admire their confidence to go for it.  

I dont know, I feel like this game didnt have a clear vision, which is its biggest problem. What does it want to be? A shonen? Philosophical? A gacha? Is it an action rpg or realtime turnbased? Should one explore or jump from level to level?

It does all of these things ok to good, but nothing great. I think they just decided to throw in whatever they thought was neat.

I haven't played it, can only go by what I have seen and heard, but the story seems to have a concrete direction.  But his desire to blend genres in story is just a Takahashi thing.

Also, the battle system is a real time battle system, as I have come to call it.  It's an established fixture of RPGs for years.  WoW, Dragon Age Origins, Final Fantasy XII, numerous games make use of this.  So it isn't a mix of turn based and action, it is it's own thing they've been using since the first Xenoblade.  Also, same thing for region based open world vs a seamless open world.  Multiple games have and still do use that structure.  



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curl-6 on 04 December 2017

caffeinade said: 

Yeah, Xenoblade has lots of enemies in close proximity.

I don't think the Switch could handle: 3 player characters, 3 blades, 6+ enemies in combat, with large high level enemies running around in the background at BotW detail.
The game is clearly taxing on the hardware: 720p docked and much lower in handheld mode.
It is a launch year game that is built on an engine that was made for a very different architecture, so there is plenty of room to improve.

You do have to admire Monolith Soft's commitment to their vision.
Not many first party devs would be willing to push their hardware quite as far as they have in this title.
Naughty Dog's Uncharted 4 runs at 1080p; imagine if they were willing to push their tech so hard, that they were forced to render at 720p.

In light of DF's analysis I think XBC2 suffered a bit from a strict deadline and the devs still figuring out the hardware as they went along. Their second Switch project should hopefully be more polished.



Nuvendil on 04 December 2017
caffeinade said:
Nuvendil said:

Yeah, one thing you have to admire with Monolith Soft and Takahashi is ambition.  I mean, his vision for Xenogears and Xenosaga was so grand his publishers at the time wouldn't back his play the whole distance.  And then you look at his goals with Xenoblade on the Wii, the scale and the level of environmental detail within that scale was just beyond what many would have thought the Wii could do.  And then with X, their FIRST HD game, they aimed to build an open world RPG in an alien world that dwarfed many comparable games on more powerful hardware.  While also dabbling in online passive multiplayer and cooperative play.  And then we have 2, where they had from what we can gather just 1.5 or 2 years to work with the Switch hardware in their hands and they didn't back down.  Their ambition is sometimes excessive, but you got to admire their confidence to go for it.  

Imagine what they could've done, had they known the final specs.
We pretty much know the Switch got a late development RAM upgrade; I am sure Monolith Soft would have appreciated that extra GB a bit sooner.

Indeed, I don't think this is the limits of Monolith and the X engine, especially where handheld optimization is concerned.  Just like I dont think we've seen the last of the BotW engine and the limits of what it can do.  



caffeinade on 05 December 2017

It would be nice if Pokemon Switch looked this good.
Game Freak is roughly the same size as Monolith Soft; surely the could pull off a Pokemon game of this scale.

I am not sure about having Pokemon following you in 3D.
Currently Boreas is my active blade, and it takes up way too much of the screen.
Maybe Game Freak could have it so a chibi version of your Pokemon follows you.



caffeinade on 05 December 2017

For some reason, when I restarted my system (and the game): I have text telling me what my moves do.
Did the game update?

Edit: Click the left stick to toggle information on your attacks.

Last edited by caffeinade - on 06 December 2017

Baddman on 06 December 2017

I am loving the game so far. I'm about 20 hrs in. Plus its great that my son loves watching me play it every night before he goes to sleep