You did say wrong. So unless wrong and right are simply grey area's, well.

Is that also where most of the money is made?

Then why the great wall of China? Why the Berlin wall? Why the American southern border wall? Did we just realize now it was all a waste when we should have simply been creating as many starving, non armed humans as possible to stand guard?

That was one example.

Why work at all when you can game the system? Why pay more for food when you can spend that money on replacing your 6 month old 'ancient' outdated cell phone? $100 more for food this year, that's outrageous! $250 more for a new phone that's slightly larger? I need to get in line no matter the wait!

What's the wall there for then? Just for show? So what, climate change isn't about saving the planet no matter how many times it get's claimed?

The problem with analysis is it's not good enough. Same reason why science requires you to experiment multiple times in the same way with certain variations to make sure it actually works when put into practice, because people's thoughts, as scientific as they may be, don't simply prove everyday reality.

Not at all. I'm seeing 'liberals' in this thread pulling from a wide variety of reliable resources - almost none of them being MSNBC or CNN - whereas I don't think I've seen any evidence on the opposite side being presented from what could be a reliable source. In fact, as I watch this debate happening I'm seeing certain people (Pemalite, Spoken Truth, etc) offering graphs and history to show the scaremongering of the right to be debunked but it's not having an effect. 

"Migration is the worst it's ever been! Illegal immigrants are ruining the nation!" Spews the right. 

"Actually, statistics and history show that illegal immigration is actually on the decline and has been since the late 90's and here's research to show that illegal immigrants are actually less likely to cause a fuss because they don't want to be deported." 

On one hand you have people spewing non-facts based on hate-mongering and fear and ignorance but they're spewed with enough passion that they actually have an influence on the world. On the other hand you have the facts, the data, the patterns, and the historical trends that go against those non-facts but we live in a world where for some reason the default is to act like both sides are equally valid when they just aren't. 

Bipartisan politics is NOT devoid of disparity. There are right and wrong answers to these questions, these problems. Don't mistake the popular vote for the ethical choice; all this entire election and administration proves is that hate and fearmongering hold more weight in this world than facts and reason and truth. And as long as the smartest people in this world continue to be smart but non-aggressive, their voices will never be heard over all the racism and xenophobia and homophobia. I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but while there are 'liberal' scumbags who force diversity and are just as violent the right, but I rarely see intelligent, well-meaning, compassionate republicans. Scientists are almost all liberal because it's liberals who want to fund the space program and care about the environment and want to give healthcare to all and fund research into mental diseases and want to prove that homosexuality is natural and harmless. Liberals want progress, Conservatives want to stagnate, refuse change, and retreat to the past. 

And yes, I know that's a bold claim (which is virtually impossible to prove) but I've never once met a person with a PHD who leaned towards the political right because the political right seems to hate science, hate the environment, and hate the idea that maybe we need to change in order to survive. 

So yeah, sorry, I'm not going to pretend both sides are equal. There is a good side and a bad side of this debate; I believe I've said it before and I will say it again, modern republicans will likely be seen as villains once this stage in history is written and relegated to the past. 

Don't you see that this strategy basically amounts to yelling at poor people "Stop being so poor about shit" "Just unpoor yourself"

No. The reason that 71% say their living paycheck to paycheck is because of their debt. They're facing the consequences of their actions.

And saying "they just need to do better" is not a reasonable solution. Reasonable solutions in that realm can be made. Like making financial education part of a national curriculum, the state paying for basic financial advisement for those who are willing, but saying "quit having so much debt, just manage it better, dingus" as a way to replace the systems we have now is ridiculously reductive and just plain stupid and heartless as a solution. 

1. So when the border wall is properly fully built and complete, where do you think the focus will go next? How much easier will it be once it's all coming in through the same known locations?

How does a drone fix the tunnel problem? Can they scan the entire border at all times? How many drones are needed? How easily can they be avoided or taken down? How much do they and their maintenance cost? How reliable are they? How many back ups are necessary? Can they apprehend the illegals themselves?

2. I didn't say they were useless, I wasn't in my 'expert' job, I just said they shouldn't be looked upon like gods. Let's consult the experts, multiple groups of them, who can be trusted as much as possible, who would not all share a similar bias, and then use other types of experts to decide which makes the most sense. Then make a decision based on all of that. Just because one person or a group has a title of some sort doesn't make them super reliable, and just because a large group all think the same way doesn't mean they're necessarily correct. How do brand new bridges collapse? How do new software updates cause instability/crashes? The experts were all consulted at some point in that process.

Where did we leave off here and how did we get to this?

No, it's a simple solution. People struggle to live paycheck to paycheck because of debt they created. Manage or try not to get into debt and then you would be in a situation.

Yes, don't go into debt so you can save more. It's not rocket science.

If you think you've found a simple solution to something people have been studying and trying to solve for decades, that usually means you just aren't educated enough about the problem. 

The initial point was about money getting into Mexico, so where the drugs are coming in isn't really the point, it's where is most of the money being made? More work to get the drugs across and more payoffs more than likely mean less profit.

A mountain usually defeats the need for a wall, sure, so?

Why didn't they just guard the perimeter with the people they had, or add more guards? Why build the wall in the first place if it's useless or way more expensive? Well a few people and millions is a pretty big difference no?

Another initial point was that the U.S. would pay for it up front and reap the benefits and savings over time, so.

I know more than a few of those people. Can't go out for a beer because it's too much of an expense, and they rarely have food in the house when I put the 6 pack in to keep cool, yet they always have the newest most useless tech to show me, because hey, it's important, I guess.

Here's my problem with the argument. It's been pointed out with charts etc, that illegal immigration is at a low point right now, relative to the past, so it's not really a problem and nothing to worry about apparently. Yet climate charts show that CO2 levels are low right now, relative to the past, and yet it's an immediate danger that's going to destroy the planet. Umm, ok?

Science shows illegal immigrants commit less crime yada yada. Since when does science trump the law when it comes to the illegal acts?

Correct, but your basically saying the analysts say the wall is a waste so let's not build it. Science demands you build it multiple times to prove it. Why is there resistance to finish the initial wall by the people who always use science to back up their claims?

I'm no expert, but the Berlin Wall didn't stop people from crossing over illegally. And that shit had soldiers with machine guns, minefields and other obstacles.