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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What if the 9th gen launched with Standard and Premium hardware!

 

Standard and Premium consoles at launch?

Yay! They both play the s... 13 38.24%
 
Nay! Consoles aren't sup... 21 61.76%
 
Total:34
Mr Puggsly said:
derpysquirtle64 said:
Bad idea. At the start of the gen it seems kinda pointless. Mid-gen upgrades approach would be better than releasing premium console at launch. Because mid-gen consoles except for more power are built with some new tech which wasn’t available in 2013. So if we get for example two different options in 2020 or 2021 it will be two consoles built on 2020 tech while with mid gen upgrades, the more powerful option will use 2024 tech

Eh... even for 2013 the 8th gen consoles weren't considered great tech. They were considered mid range gaming rigs. At the time the GPU was worth MAYBE $150 and Jaguar architecture was already dated.

For $599 or less in 2013, we probably could have already had the PS4 Pro. However they were definitely avoiding risks at the time and the concept of premium consoles wasn't really a thing yet.

No we couldn’t. Look at PS4 pro and how big it is. The console with such power would have been even more bigger and less power efficient in 2013 because the original 2013 consoles had 28nm transistors while the new ones use 14nm. And if you just imagine the size and power consumption of that thing then it should be pretty clear that this would be console for no one. Those who want power would rather build a PC because there won’t be almost any difference in size and power consumption



 

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derpysquirtle64 said:
Bad idea. At the start of the gen it seems kinda pointless. Mid-gen upgrades approach would be better than releasing premium console at launch. Because mid-gen consoles except for more power are built with some new tech which wasn’t available in 2013. So if we get for example two different options in 2020 or 2021 it will be two consoles built on 2020 tech while with mid gen upgrades, the more powerful option will use 2024 tech

The PS4 Pro wasn't built on new tech though, the GPU is essentially the same chip in the PS4 but with a mirror copy and overclocked. "That’s why the Pro incorporates an identical GPU. Because the new console has "the old GPU next to a mirror version of itself," Equally the CPU is exactly the same but at a higher. clock.

The PS4 Pro could technically have been released in 2013, though it would have been priced at a minimum of $599.

edit: wasn't aware the Pro used 14nm as opposed to the original 28nm.



It already has, because I believe traditional console gens are done.

X2 and PS5 will be the new premium console, Pro and X1X will be the new standard console, the OG consoles will get phased out. This cycle will rinse and repeat.

I expect the Switch to follow suit too (sorry, but it exists in the real world). They will follow a similar method that they used with the "New" 3DS. It will play all the same games, and IF a game can be released on the base model, it will. However, mainly for 3rd parties, the Switch 2 will be beefy enough to run multiplat games on the go that are geared toward the PS5 and X2, at around the level of the new standard consoles (Pro and X1X).

It is at this point where we will see games that will be released for the Switch 2 that cannot be run on the OG Switch (similar to Xenoblade 3D on the 3DS) or games at higher setting and framerates (similar to Hyrule Warriors Legends for 3DS). This seems like the most logical step for Nintendo moving forward as they will be able to keep up with new hardware with versions on the go without "abandoning" the base models.

 

It would not suprise me if Nvidia is already working on a new chipset for this.



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Barkley said:
derpysquirtle64 said:
Bad idea. At the start of the gen it seems kinda pointless. Mid-gen upgrades approach would be better than releasing premium console at launch. Because mid-gen consoles except for more power are built with some new tech which wasn’t available in 2013. So if we get for example two different options in 2020 or 2021 it will be two consoles built on 2020 tech while with mid gen upgrades, the more powerful option will use 2024 tech

The PS4 Pro wasn't built on new tech though, the GPU is essentially the same chip in the PS4 but with a mirror copy and overclocked. "That’s why the Pro incorporates an identical GPU. Because the new console has "the old GPU next to a mirror version of itself," Equally the CPU is exactly the same but at a higher. clock.

The PS4 Pro could technically have been released in 2013, though it would have been priced at a minimum of $599.

edit: wasn't aware the Pro used 14nm as opposed to the original 28nm.

Yes, PS4 pro has just a cluster of two ps 4 gpus with higher clocks. Full hardware compatibility. Though just imagine the SoC size with 28nm. It would have been enormous. 

So, the answer to the question about premium launch model is simple. So if we assume that there are only two options: either mid-gen upgrades or launch premium models which one would you prefer: PS4 pro type of upgrade but with bigger size and power consumption at the start of gen or Xbox One X type of upgrade a few years later. I think that obviously the latter is a way better option. 



 

Kerozinn said:
Mr Puggsly said:

So why is there a market for X1X and PS4 Pro?

Clearly people want higher fidelity in the console arena.

because the consoles we got in 2013 were weak and ran games in sub hd like all the time on xbox and more than often on ps4 . Ppl had 1080p native tvs in their homes and had to play with lower res than their native resolution which is the same shit they had with ps3 and xbox 360.

4K tvs are new and ppl wanna make use of them so thats why they exist. Ppl with 1080p sets buy  pro or xbox x to play at the native tv res with 60 fps locked in BF1 instead of that 35-50 fps mess they get on og or slim ps4/xbox one. And also there is downsampling.

honestly the new consoles are still weak. both run with that old ass jaguar bottlebeck of a cpu in them.

1. 720p - 1080p is HD. Do you think the average consumer knows the resolution running? At best they just know when it looks bad but effects can make it look better.

2. Even if a game is running the native resolution it can look bad without post processing effects to clean it up. Hence, this is where X1X and PS4 Pro helps make games look better even on a 1080p screen.

3. Same resolution doesn't mean same presentation. Aside from superior assets, the effects can give a much more polished presentation.

4. You're making an argument on my side. Even at launch we saw games struggling to hit ideal resolutions and performance. Hence, there was room for a Premium console.

5. Agree and disagree. They're very capable machines at $399-499. At that price all you can really expect a is mid range gaming PC. Which ain't bad considering X1X in particular delivers 4K fairly regularly with high visual fidelity.



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Then the premium version would be outdated after a year and we'd be stuck again. What we need are continuous iterations and not some "generations" bullshit that gives manufacturers an excuse to shit on backwards compatibility and sell us the same games multiple times.



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derpysquirtle64 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Eh... even for 2013 the 8th gen consoles weren't considered great tech. They were considered mid range gaming rigs. At the time the GPU was worth MAYBE $150 and Jaguar architecture was already dated.

For $599 or less in 2013, we probably could have already had the PS4 Pro. However they were definitely avoiding risks at the time and the concept of premium consoles wasn't really a thing yet.

No we couldn’t. Look at PS4 pro and how big it is. The console with such power would have been even more bigger and less power efficient in 2013 because the original 2013 consoles had 28nm transistors while the new ones use 14nm. And if you just imagine the size and power consumption of that thing then it should be pretty clear that this would be console for no one. Those who want power would rather build a PC because there won’t be almost any difference in size and power consumption

I was talking more about the power, not the size and power efficiency...

I mean those things are nice, but the primary reason people are buying premium hardware is power.

Again... there are clearly people who want more powerful consoles without making the leap into PC gaming. These are still very different experiences and why consoles are still popular platforms.



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vivster said:

Then the premium version would be outdated after a year and we'd be stuck again. What we need are continuous iterations and not some "generations" bullshit that gives manufacturers an excuse to shit on backwards compatibility and sell us the same games multiple times.

Depends on how big of an upgrade the Premium would be.

Like I said before, I believe we could have had a Premium console at par with PS4 Pro in 2013 for $499-599. A machine that easily achieves 1080p and more stable performance. While the X1X is better taking advantage of coming years later.

If the 9th gen really wants to really aim for 4K on a regular basis with improved graphics, I think its gonna have be at a premium price like $599. Our current 4K consoles already struggle to hit 4K in many cases.



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for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
Kerozinn said:  

if you truly care for 60fps and ultra settings you wont get past a desktop gaming pc.

So why is there a market for X1X and PS4 Pro?

Clearly people want higher fidelity in the console arena.

You don't know everyone's preference. If I wanted a X1X or Pro. I'd run it in 1080 at 60fps. I don't care about resolution HDR etc. anymore. But I care about FPS.



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