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Forums - Gaming - Next Gen Tech (NGT): STORAGE

 

Which storage solution would we end up with?

SATA 32 37.21%
 
M.2 30 34.88%
 
Embedded 3 3.49%
 
Lost me at Tech.. show results 21 24.42%
 
Total:86
Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

A 500GB 3.5" would have been cheaper though, and they didn't go that route. The size of the console shell and size of the HDD itself, clearly was more important than saving money on the HDD itself. Another factor that could lead to a better or worse storage option next gen.

For consumers, sure. However Microsoft and Sony are buying in bulk and might have negotiated a price that consumers wouldn't typically see.

In Microsoft's case though, they opted for a 2.5" drive because they are less noisy (Xbox One had a big focus on noise remember), they do use less power, they do take up less space and... They generate less heat. (Xbox One had a big focus on cooling remember.)

So it made sense to opt for a 2.5" drive. And they might do so again next gen.

EricHiggin said:

Shortages are a possibility, but I remember reading about GDDR5 being unlikely in the PS4 due to availability and price, yet it ended up happening, and 8GB worth at that. When someone like PS comes along and you know your basically guaranteed around a steady 100M units worth of sales, that's worth the hassle of making it happen most of the time.

Well. Microsoft wasn't willing to take the gamble... But if they did. There would have likely been GDDR5 shortages... Which would have resulted in a higher price.

Buying in bulk, is buying in bulk. Saying they couldn't get a better deal on 3.5", but could on 2.5", doesn't make sense from the manufacturers side. It's not like 3.5" is being phased out or anything like that. A 3.5" HDD could not fit inside the OG PS4 as it was designed, so it meant either a redesign, or a 2.5" HDD.

If PS and XB are so worried about noise, space, consumption, and heat, then an SSD would be way better than any HDD next gen, if the right price can be met.

XB may have just went with DDR3, because XB1 wasn't directly focused on gaming, plus that was the norm for APU's at that time. I remember reading that the PS decision was not quite as last minute as some may think, so GDDR5 supply may have been locked up so XB couldn't even use it even it they wanted to. That or XB would have possibly had to pay more and wait longer to launch, while building up GDDR5 supply, which they probably didn't want to do. I remember reading about all of the XB1 updates and add on software after launch, that made many wonder if the XB1 was rushed to some degree.

Just way too much to take into account at the moment. Storage for PS5 could possibly be what RAM was for PS4. A big surprise.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

Around the Network
EricHiggin said:

Buying in bulk, is buying in bulk. Saying they couldn't get a better deal on 3.5", but could on 2.5", doesn't make sense from the manufacturers side. It's not like 3.5" is being phased out or anything like that. A 3.5" HDD could not fit inside the OG PS4 as it was designed, so it meant either a redesign, or a 2.5" HDD.

I never said anything to the contrary.

EricHiggin said:

If PS and XB are so worried about noise, space, consumption, and heat, then an SSD would be way better than any HDD next gen, if the right price can be met.

That is entirely dependent on costs of course.

EricHiggin said:

XB may have just went with DDR3, because XB1 wasn't directly focused on gaming, plus that was the norm for APU's at that time.

Not the norm for APU's at the time? Common. You need to do better than that.

The Playstation 4 uses almost the same technology as the Xbox One, released around the same time, likely started it's development process around the same time.
It used GDDR5.

EricHiggin said:

I remember reading that the PS decision was not quite as last minute as some may think, so GDDR5 supply may have been locked up so XB couldn't even use it even it they wanted to.

There was some concern over GDDR5 supply.
Anandtech had an article on it.

EricHiggin said:

That or XB would have possibly had to pay more and wait longer to launch, while building up GDDR5 supply, which they probably didn't want to do. I remember reading about all of the XB1 updates and add on software after launch, that made many wonder if the XB1 was rushed to some degree.

Just way too much to take into account at the moment. Storage for PS5 could possibly be what RAM was for PS4. A big surprise.

Certainly not a rushed console with the eSRAM and over engineered cooling system.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Buying in bulk, is buying in bulk. Saying they couldn't get a better deal on 3.5", but could on 2.5", doesn't make sense from the manufacturers side. It's not like 3.5" is being phased out or anything like that. A 3.5" HDD could not fit inside the OG PS4 as it was designed, so it meant either a redesign, or a 2.5" HDD.

I never said anything to the contrary.

You said "However Microsoft and Sony are buying in bulk and might have negotiated a price that consumers wouldn't typically see." Which was in reply to me asking why they wouldn't choose 3.5" since it's cheaper. Which means if 3.5" is cheaper than 2.5" already, then a deal on 3.5" would be even better than a deal for 2.5". They still chose to go with 2.5" though. Cost could not have been the main factor in the HDD choice, but it is a factor of course.

EricHiggin said:

If PS and XB are so worried about noise, space, consumption, and heat, then an SSD would be way better than any HDD next gen, if the right price can be met.

That is entirely dependent on costs of course.

I wouldn't say entirely, but yes.

EricHiggin said:

XB may have just went with DDR3, because XB1 wasn't directly focused on gaming, plus that was the norm for APU's at that time.

Not the norm for APU's at the time? Common. You need to do better than that.

The Playstation 4 uses almost the same technology as the Xbox One, released around the same time, likely started it's development process around the same time.
It used GDDR5.

The PS4 did. All other devices that had APU's used a pool of DDR3, just like Intel's SOC's. Those other devices are multi use, much more like the XB1. The PS4 is much more so a dedicated gaming device. Dedicated GPU's typically use GDDR5. Also XB1 eSRAM.

EricHiggin said:

I remember reading that the PS decision was not quite as last minute as some may think, so GDDR5 supply may have been locked up so XB couldn't even use it even it they wanted to.

There was some concern over GDDR5 supply.
Anandtech had an article on it.

There were quite a few article's that pointed at different reasons. Can't be sure how much truth and how much effect.

EricHiggin said:

That or XB would have possibly had to pay more and wait longer to launch, while building up GDDR5 supply, which they probably didn't want to do. I remember reading about all of the XB1 updates and add on software after launch, that made many wonder if the XB1 was rushed to some degree.

Just way too much to take into account at the moment. Storage for PS5 could possibly be what RAM was for PS4. A big surprise.

Certainly not a rushed console with the eSRAM and over engineered cooling system.

Just because the engineering and samples may have been ready, doesn't mean the system was ready to launch. They were playing Scorpio earlier this year, yet it just launched.

Comments in bold. 

Again, way to many what if's, and not enough known's. For me personally anyway. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

EricHiggin said:

You said "However Microsoft and Sony are buying in bulk and might have negotiated a price that consumers wouldn't typically see." Which was in reply to me asking why they wouldn't choose 3.5" since it's cheaper. Which means if 3.5" is cheaper than 2.5" already, then a deal on 3.5" would be even better than a deal for 2.5". They still chose to go with 2.5" though. Cost could not have been the main factor in the HDD choice, but it is a factor of course.

That's in reference to all drives.
And is applicable to all drives, including optical. - I could have explained myself better I suppose.

EricHiggin said:

The PS4 did. All other devices that had APU's used a pool of DDR3, just like Intel's SOC's. Those other devices are multi use, much more like the XB1. The PS4 is much more so a dedicated gaming device. Dedicated GPU's typically use GDDR5. Also XB1 eSRAM.

The Xbox 360's chip used GDDR3 rather than DDR3. We could technically class that as an APU once the GPU was integrated within the CPU.

There were many reasons why Microsoft chose DDR3 over GDDR5, the fact it was an "APU" wasn't one of them.

EricHiggin said:

There were quite a few article's that pointed at different reasons. Can't be sure how much truth and how much effect.

There are several outlets on the internet which can be held in extremely high regard.
Anandtech and Digital Foundry falls into that category.

I wouldn't brush them aside casually.

EricHiggin said:

Just because the engineering and samples may have been ready, doesn't mean the system was ready to launch. They were playing Scorpio earlier this year, yet it just launched.

These devices are in the design phase for years.

There were a ton of hints and leaked information dropped about the Xbox One years prior to it's launch.

The Xbox One was most certainly not a rushed console, anyone looking at the motherboard, the over engineered cooling and power delivery understands this.
The software was immature, but the same went for the Playstation 4, Wii U, Switch, Xbox 360, Playstation 3 as well, it's normal for a new platform release, they get patched and updated over time.

EricHiggin said:

Comments in bold. 


I hate it when people reply in Bold, it makes my job replying more difficult.  Haha




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said: 

That's in reference to all drives.

And is applicable to all drives, including optical. - I could have explained myself better I suppose.

Optical. Storage.

Pemalite said:

The Xbox 360's chip used GDDR3 rather than DDR3. We could technically class that as an APU once the GPU was integrated within the CPU.

There were many reasons why Microsoft chose DDR3 over GDDR5, the fact it was an "APU" wasn't one of them.

I would hope not for their sake.

Pemalite said:

There are several outlets on the internet which can be held in extremely high regard.

Anandtech and Digital Foundry falls into that category.

I wouldn't brush them aside casually.

Who's refuting them?

Pemalite said:

These devices are in the design phase for years.

There were a ton of hints and leaked information dropped about the Xbox One years prior to it's launch.

The Xbox One was most certainly not a rushed console, anyone looking at the motherboard, the over engineered cooling and power delivery understands this.
The software was immature, but the same went for the Playstation 4, Wii U, Switch, Xbox 360, Playstation 3 as well, it's normal for a new platform release, they get patched and updated over time.

If only that darn DRM and Kinect wasn't baked right into the hardware. Too bad XB wasn't willing to gamble.

Pemalite said:

I hate it when people reply in Bold, it makes my job replying more difficult.  Haha

Surprise. lol

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 09 November 2017

PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

Around the Network

I just had a thought. If the XB4 and PS5 release in the same year, they will probably be pretty similarly powered and priced. Other specs would become more important to differentiate them, then. What would be a better selling point? A high capacity, lower speed drive to store lots of 100+ GB games, or a high speed, low capacity drive to load said games much quicker? If they're going head to head, which do you think they'll go with?



EricHiggin said:

Pemalite said:

The Xbox 360's chip used GDDR3 rather than DDR3. We could technically class that as an APU once the GPU was integrated within the CPU.

There were many reasons why Microsoft chose DDR3 over GDDR5, the fact it was an "APU" wasn't one of them.

I would hope not for their sake.

If I am not mistaken, the key issue over the whole RAM thing back then was not just a supply issue, but more importantly a supply issue of 4Gb (gigabit) GDDR5 chips (PS4 cerca 2013 had 16 of such chips). No one could have been sure of those chips would become readily available or the launch of the consoles. Sony was even rumoured to be juggling the idea of using 4GB of GDDR5 and 4GB of DDR3. Even their developers said they found out about the 8GB when we all did.

MS went with DDR3 cause right off the bat they wanted to have 8GB of ram...... but cause they anticipated that it wont be possible to make that of the GDDR5 variety early on in the life of their console design they went the ESram route which is actually a more complex chip design that what sony's approach was. That shows a lot of forward thinking and indicates that they were never rushed. 

Sony was going with the split ram thingy until they got their breakthrough and lucked out on 4Gb GDDR5 ram chips being available. It was relatively easier for them to rework their board.

TallSilhouette said:
I just had a thought. If the XB4 and PS5 release in the same year, they will probably be pretty similarly powered and priced. Other specs would become more important to differentiate them, then. What would be a better selling point? A high capacity, lower speed drive to store lots of 100+ GB games, or a high speed, low capacity drive to load said games much quicker? If they're going head to head, which do you think they'll go with?

This right here is the real reason sony is against cross play.

At the end of the day, when there is absolutely nothing to separate the consoles anymore (consider that right now we are at a point where comparisons usually have to zoom in by like 200%+ to highlight differences or we are comparing framerates that differ by like 2-7 frames.... yes, thats nitpicking) the only thing to differentiate them would be games and userbase.

Chances are, if the two consoles are exactly the same, then everyone that has a PS4 now will go with a PS5 and everyone that has a XB1 will get an XB2. The next generation of the HD twins will be more "identical" than ever before. Its only their software lineup that will differentiate them. Something MS finally seems to be catching onto if we are to take Phil Spencers words as fact which suggests that MS are gonna start acquiring studios or making new ones. 



Intrinsic said:
TallSilhouette said:
I just had a thought. If the XB4 and PS5 release in the same year, they will probably be pretty similarly powered and priced. Other specs would become more important to differentiate them, then. What would be a better selling point? A high capacity, lower speed drive to store lots of 100+ GB games, or a high speed, low capacity drive to load said games much quicker? If they're going head to head, which do you think they'll go with?

This right here is the real reason sony is against cross play.

At the end of the day, when there is absolutely nothing to separate the consoles anymore (consider that right now we are at a point where comparisons usually have to zoom in by like 200%+ to highlight differences or we are comparing framerates that differ by like 2-7 frames.... yes, thats nitpicking) the only thing to differentiate them would be games and userbase.

Chances are, if the two consoles are exactly the same, then everyone that has a PS4 now will go with a PS5 and everyone that has a XB1 will get an XB2. The next generation of the HD twins will be more "identical" than ever before. Its only their software lineup that will differentiate them. Something MS finally seems to be catching onto if we are to take Phil Spencers words as fact which suggests that MS are gonna start acquiring studios or making new ones. 

Good point. The more similar the consoles become as time goes on, the less the hardware will matter. Games and service will become more than just ammunition. Would XB ever make a deal where they pay PS to have Live on the PS5 as a service, and stop making hardware altogether? XB exclusives on a PS console? Would PS prefer or even allow that? It would give PS some more control and would drive customers to the physical PS hardware and software ecosystem.

I have a hard time seeing XB acquire more studios. The problems with studios leaving XB, some employee's not being happy there, plus closing studios as well. Maybe XB will or have changed their attitude, maybe they haven't or won't. Creating their own new studios makes much more sense, since those employee's now know what they are getting into and XB won't have to deal with changing those existing companies habits, to fit what XB wants. More work yes, but also much more stable and reliable once complete.

I would guess PS would choose a lesser TB SSD over a greater TB HDD. In bulk, PS should be able to get a way better deal on SSD's than any consumer could. This would allow the consumer to be able to buy a greater TB external HDD, for cheap at retail, instead of having that consumer buy a more expensive lower TB external SSD, or swap out the stock HDD with the SSD. By that time we may also be at USB 4 or 5 potentially. The average consumer will also see SSD on the PS box, and HDD on the Xbox, and will ask or find out what the difference is. When they read or are told that HDD is ancient tech and SSD is the latest and greatest, which means drastically faster load times, people will lean towards the newer tech in a new console, as long as the price is right. Whether it's SSD or M.2 or whatever, PS should incorporate that into the stock system using their mass purchasing influence and allow customers to buy a cheap mass storage HDD at retail, whether there is an extra space to slot it in the console or external.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.