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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Xenoblade Chronicles Series Thread: Definitive Edition (All Spoilers in Tags)

curl-6 said:
Peh said:

The pieces just doesn't fit for me. Alvis is an administrative computer, whereas Ontos is the core of the trinity processor. 

As far as I can see, Alvis was from the beginning in the new world, otherwise I can't explain his godlike powers. Logos and Pneuma don't have such powers even if they where made by the same trinity processor. 

 

Yes, the trinity processor was a part of the old universe recreated by Klaus in the new one. But nor Logos or Pneuma are aware of it. 

Alvis on the other hand was a whole computer, thus possibily an AI in the old universe. That's why he is aware of what has happened.

 

It just doesn't come together and nor has it been confirmed. Thus, I am waiting for the story DLC or sequel and hope for a further explanation as what has happened to Ontos.

Well, when you bring things like alternate dimensions into play, there's no reason the universes of Xenoblade 1 and 2 have to play by the same rules. Alvis says he was the "administrative computer" of the facility, which is basically what the Trinity Processor is. Hence Klaus saying that Ontos initiated a phase transition event and disappeared ties in pretty directly into Xenoblade 1, where Alvis ended up in that universe and says he was the computer in charge of the facility that performed the experiment. It seems very clear the way I read it.

A processor is not a computer.

Also, Ontos would have a core crystal like Pyra and Malos. Alvis doesn't have one.

Alvis said ( I have to check on this) that his family was serving the high entia, because of their foresight features. He was born into the family. So, he didn't lived as long as Mythra and Malos.

It starts to not making much sense...

 

Nevertheless, as I said, if Alvis would be Ontos, Klaus would be aware of his positwuion.  

 



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Peh said:
curl-6 said:

Well, when you bring things like alternate dimensions into play, there's no reason the universes of Xenoblade 1 and 2 have to play by the same rules. Alvis says he was the "administrative computer" of the facility, which is basically what the Trinity Processor is. Hence Klaus saying that Ontos initiated a phase transition event and disappeared ties in pretty directly into Xenoblade 1, where Alvis ended up in that universe and says he was the computer in charge of the facility that performed the experiment. It seems very clear the way I read it.

A processor is not a computer.

Also, Ontos would have a core crystal like Pyra and Malos. Alvis doesn't have one.

Alvis said ( I have to check on this) that his family was serving the high entia, because of their foresight features. He was born into the family. So, he didn't lived as long as Mythra and Malos.

It starts to not making much sense...

 

Nevertheless, as I said, if Alvis would be Ontos, Klaus would be aware of his positwuion.  

 

1) That is splitting hairs.  Also, it technically is by the black letter definition.

2)  Alvis can easily conceal his core, he has god level powers in the parallel universe.  Which btw, Pneuma has similar abilities.  Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station.  

3) Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old.

4) Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self.

And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original.   

In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference.



curl-6 said:
shenlong213 said:

 

Quality of Life Updates:

1. You can lock blades so you won't accidentally release them

 

2. When can skip the core crystal bonding cutscene.

3. When you enlarge the mini-map, icons from the skip travel map will now be displayed.

4. Added an Easy Mode.

5. New sorting option being added for items.


Advanced New Game Mode
 is being added. 

You have to beat the game and choose this save option to go into this mode.

Here is what carries over from your completed game:

1. Driver Levels
2. Unlocked Skills on both drivers and blades.
3. Blades
4. Items and Gold
5. Mercenary Ranking Level
6. Town Development Level
7. Unique Monster Kills
8. Cutscenes

Quests, Heart to Heats, Skip Travel Points, and mercenary missions will not carry over.

Here is what is added in Advanced New Game Mode

1. Torna's Blades: Obrona, Sever, Perdido, and Cressidus can now be obtained as blades.

2. Torna's Drivers: Akhos, Patroka, and Mikhail can now be obtained as blades.

3. A certain character now has access to a level 4 special.

4. ALL blades can now be dispatched on mercenary missions (Even Pyra, Dromarch, etc.)

5. New skills added to Skill Tree (for drivers)

6. You can lower a driver's level at an inn. Doing so nets you more bonus EXP when you win battles. 

7. You can use bonus exp to purchase new special items, including an item that lets you hold more accessories. 


For those who purchased the Expansion Pass:

The 4th round of items will be distributed.

I wish it had launched with the Easy Mode, wouldn't saved me a lot of suffering! XD

Being able to skip that Blade Bonding cutscene is also a big plus.

I probably won't be doing the New Game Plus though, if it means I have to beat the final boss again, that was just too much of a hassle. It's a shame cos I was kinda looking forward to doing another run through in a few years.

Given what caries over from the original save, by the time you reach the final boss you will probably be able to obliterate him without hardly trying.  



Nuvendil said:
Peh said:

A processor is not a computer.

Also, Ontos would have a core crystal like Pyra and Malos. Alvis doesn't have one.

Alvis said ( I have to check on this) that his family was serving the high entia, because of their foresight features. He was born into the family. So, he didn't lived as long as Mythra and Malos.

It starts to not making much sense...

 

Nevertheless, as I said, if Alvis would be Ontos, Klaus would be aware of his positwuion.  

 

1) That is splitting hairs.  Also, it technically is by the black letter definition.

2)  Alvis can easily conceal his core, he has god level powers in the parallel universe.  Which btw, Pneuma has similar abilities.  Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station.  

3) Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old.

4) Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self.

And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original.   

In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference.

Oh I know that, what I meant was, I already finished the game, but it sounds like I'll have to finish it again to start a new game plus, and I don't know if I really want to do Aion again. 



curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

1) That is splitting hairs.  Also, it technically is by the black letter definition.

2)  Alvis can easily conceal his core, he has god level powers in the parallel universe.  Which btw, Pneuma has similar abilities.  Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station.  

3) Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old.

4) Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self.

And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original.   

In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference.

Oh I know that, what I meant was, I already finished the game, but it sounds like I'll have to finish it again to start a new game plus, and I don't know if I really want to do Aion again. 

I think you quoted the wrong post but on the other hand, since you've seen the ending, you could always fast travel away and do a bit of building up.  



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Wyrdness said:
The next major update after this one I think is the Blade DLC which adds even more and the Quest DLC both hit in the spring period.

Hasn’t the Quest DLC already been released? I’ve gotten five side quests through the expansion pass menu, but they were kinda short so I wouldn’t mind more.



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Super_Boom said:
Wyrdness said:
The next major update after this one I think is the Blade DLC which adds even more and the Quest DLC both hit in the spring period.

Hasn’t the Quest DLC already been released? I’ve gotten five side quests through the expansion pass menu, but they were kinda short so I wouldn’t mind more.

They added quests in January but more are going to be added later on.



Nuvendil said:
Peh said:

A processor is not a computer.

Also, Ontos would have a core crystal like Pyra and Malos. Alvis doesn't have one.

Alvis said ( I have to check on this) that his family was serving the high entia, because of their foresight features. He was born into the family. So, he didn't lived as long as Mythra and Malos.

It starts to not making much sense...

 

Nevertheless, as I said, if Alvis would be Ontos, Klaus would be aware of his positwuion.  

 

1) That is splitting hairs.  Also, it technically is by the black letter definition.

2)  Alvis can easily conceal his core, he has god level powers in the parallel universe.  Which btw, Pneuma has similar abilities.  Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station.  

3) Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old.

4) Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self.

And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original.   

In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference.

You actually support my point without realizing it.  

2) "Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station."

So, you agree with me, that Alvis was there from the beginning. Hence, he even says this in the game. Meaning -> Alvis existed before the new universe, hence why he says he was an administrative computer in that facility. So all three: Meyneth, half of Klaus body (Zanza) and the AI Alvis went into the new universe.  There were their from the start. Do you agree? 

3) "Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old."

You made a claim here. So, I ask for proof that Alvis indeed lied and also that "Alvis" was part of the "Trinity". 

4) "Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self."

That's not exactly correct. He was aware of the end of Zanza, thus that Shulk will have the upper hand and Alvis turns against him. Why not being as confident as Zanza by having both Monados. How could anyone loose the fight? 

"And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original. " 

Source? This is where I am referencing the recreation: https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=2058

He created a substance to rebuild the world he has destroyed. Take a note here, that this has been all done after the new universe was created. Next step was creating life. It took, as Klaus said, a time of untold millennia -> Evolution. After the new breed of life was there he didn't trusted the world. Thus he created the final measurement I already said in a previous post. He created the Blades. 

https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=2177

You can see him standing there with his other half being in the other universe. Alvis was already in that universe with Zanza. Ontos was still in the one where Klaus is. And THEN Ontos left the universe for good!

"In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference."

Please restrain yourself from such comments. As I listed above, there are inconsistencies which make me believe that Alvis and Ontos are not the same person. If you got better arguments saying otherwise, let me hear it. So far, you are not convincing. 



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Peh said:
Nuvendil said:

1) That is splitting hairs.  Also, it technically is by the black letter definition.

2)  Alvis can easily conceal his core, he has god level powers in the parallel universe.  Which btw, Pneuma has similar abilities.  Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station.  

3) Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old.

4) Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self.

And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original.   

In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference.

You actually support my point without realizing it.  

2) "Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station."

So, you agree with me, that Alvis was there from the beginning. Hence, he even says this in the game. Meaning -> Alvis existed before the new universe, hence why he says he was an administrative computer in that facility. So all three: Meyneth, half of Klaus body (Zanza) and the AI Alvis went into the new universe.  There were their from the start. Do you agree? 

3) "Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old."

You made a claim here. So, I ask for proof that Alvis indeed lied and also that "Alvis" was part of the "Trinity". 

4) "Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self."

That's not exactly correct. He was aware of the end of Zanza, thus that Shulk will have the upper hand and Alvis turns against him. Why not being as confident as Zanza by having both Monados. How could anyone loose the fight? 

"And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original. " 

Source? This is where I am referencing the recreation: https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=2058

He created a substance to rebuild the world he has destroyed. Take a note here, that this has been all done after the new universe was created. Next step was creating life. It took, as Klaus said, a time of untold millennia -> Evolution. After the new breed of life was there he didn't trusted the world. Thus he created the final measurement I already said in a previous post. He created the Blades. 

https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=2177

You can see him standing there with his other half being in the other universe. Alvis was already in that universe with Zanza. Ontos was still in the one where Klaus is. And THEN Ontos left the universe for good!

"In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference."

Please restrain yourself from such comments. As I listed above, there are inconsistencies which make me believe that Alvis and Ontos are not the same person. If you got better arguments saying otherwise, let me hear it. So far, you are not convincing. 

Yes, they were there from the start.  Ontos crossed over and became Alvis during or immediately following the Experiment.  When Ontos vanished is unstated, only that he was gone before Klaus could ever use him.  And we never see his Core post experiment, but more on that later.

Alvis was revealed to be one of the Trinity during your battle with him and Dickson outside Colony 9.  His physical form as a Hom was purely a fabrication, obviously.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3kuT9zj-M

By limited I meant he can only, from what we see, perceive what immediately surrounds his other self.  He doesn't see everything over there, just enough to know what's happening to himself.  And it is entirely likely he would not recognize Ontos.  He recognizes Pneuma and Logos because 1) he saw Malos become a blade and 2) they are connected to his global network, with all data from them passing through them.  Being in another dimension, Ontos is obviously outside his reach.  

And look again but closer, in that scene where we see him in front of the Trinity Processor, the bottom left core container is already empty.  We never, not once, see Ontos.  The Trinity Processor is original, it was the processor designed to interface with the Conduit.  The reference to the name is here, in the very video you linked:  https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=360 .  And I don't know why you think he would have to recreate it.  This whole station was left in tact, it would seem silly for the whole of Elysium to survive the experiment but the Trinity Processor be destroyed.  It would make no sense.  

Last edited by Nuvendil - on 09 February 2018

Nuvendil said:
Peh said:

You actually support my point without realizing it.  

2) "Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station."

So, you agree with me, that Alvis was there from the beginning. Hence, he even says this in the game. Meaning -> Alvis existed before the new universe, hence why he says he was an administrative computer in that facility. So all three: Meyneth, half of Klaus body (Zanza) and the AI Alvis went into the new universe.  There were their from the start. Do you agree? 

3) "Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old."

You made a claim here. So, I ask for proof that Alvis indeed lied and also that "Alvis" was part of the "Trinity". 

4) "Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self."

That's not exactly correct. He was aware of the end of Zanza, thus that Shulk will have the upper hand and Alvis turns against him. Why not being as confident as Zanza by having both Monados. How could anyone loose the fight? 

"And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original. " 

Source? This is where I am referencing the recreation: https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=2058

He created a substance to rebuild the world he has destroyed. Take a note here, that this has been all done after the new universe was created. Next step was creating life. It took, as Klaus said, a time of untold millennia -> Evolution. After the new breed of life was there he didn't trusted the world. Thus he created the final measurement I already said in a previous post. He created the Blades. 

https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=2177

You can see him standing there with his other half being in the other universe. Alvis was already in that universe with Zanza. Ontos was still in the one where Klaus is. And THEN Ontos left the universe for good!

"In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference."

Please restrain yourself from such comments. As I listed above, there are inconsistencies which make me believe that Alvis and Ontos are not the same person. If you got better arguments saying otherwise, let me hear it. So far, you are not convincing. 

Yes, they were there from the start.  Ontos crossed over and became Alvis during or immediately following the Experiment.  When Ontos vanished is unstated, only that he was gone before Klaus could ever use him.  And we never see his Core post experiment, but more on that later.

Alvis was revealed to be one of the Trinity during your battle with him and Dickson outside Colony 9.  His physical form as a Hom was purely a fabrication, obviously.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3kuT9zj-M

By limited I meant he can only, from what we see, perceive what immediately surrounds his other self.  He doesn't see everything over there, just enough to know what's happening to himself.  And it is entirely likely he would not recognize Ontos.  He recognizes Pneuma and Logos because 1) he saw Malos become a blade and 2) they are connected to his global network, with all data from them passing through them.  Being in another dimension, Ontos is obviously outside his reach.  

And look again but closer, in that scene where we see him in front of the Trinity Processor, the bottom left core container is already empty.  We never, not once, see Ontos.  The Trinity Processor is original, it was the processor designed to interface with the Conduit.  The reference to the name is here, in the very video you linked:  https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=360 .  And I don't know why you think he would have to recreate it.  This whole station was left in tact, it would seem silly for the whole of Elysium to survive the experiment but the Trinity Processor be destroyed.  It would make no sense.  

It appears to me that Ontos left the moment he became a blade or rather an Aegis. How can a processor have a will of their own? It's just a unit processing information. It's a part of a computer. On it's own, it's worthless. So, I believe after Klaus modified it to become a blade, he was more than just a processor. But this also doesn't make much sense, since Pneuma and Logos doesn't have a personality of their own. They will get one by the one who is activating them. None of such happened to Ontos... but when we go by the greek meaning... Ontos means existence... so maybe he was something different and had more abilities then the other two.  That's just speculations....

By Alvis being part of the Trinity it means that he (Alvis), Dickson and that crazy bird woman form the Trinity. It's the collective name of Zansa's disciplies.
http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Trinity
That's a dead end. 

Alvis said, that humans curiosity destroyed the whole universe. This doesn't seem to be the case... somehow. Nevertheless, if Ontos disappeared shortly after the experiment or during it, how does Klaus know what he actually did without seeing it first hand? It's not like his focus was on the Trinity processor after the moment life was already evolved and he wanted to create the blades. If he saw that Ontos was already gone at that point, he could just great a new one for that task. I mean, he rebuild the world with modifications. 

I just wait for the DLC and sequel.

So far, Xenoblade 1 was never intended from the start to have a sequel and just be a game of it's own with the name Monade: Beginning of the World.

Personally, referencing Ontos as being Alvis seems pointless, because even by not doing so, we wouldn't much care anyway. Alvis origin was already clear to everyone playing X1. So, I rather see Ontos as being part of Xenoblade 3.

Otherwise they could end the story right here.  

 I'm also done, because there is nothing more to say for me at this point. 



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