The Xenoblade Chronicles Series Thread: Definitive Edition (All Spoilers in Tags)

[Peh]

Nuvendil said:

Peh said:

You actually support my point without realizing it.  

2) "Also, The Xenoblade 1 universe appears to have been a sort of blank dimension, a clean slate, that Alvis along with Zanza and Meyneth (using Alvis's power, the power of the Conduit) shaped.  Hence why he would be so all powerful there.  He even references he came from that exact same station."

So, you agree with me, that Alvis was there from the beginning. Hence, he even says this in the game. Meaning -> Alvis existed before the new universe, hence why he says he was an administrative computer in that facility. So all three: Meyneth, half of Klaus body (Zanza) and the AI Alvis went into the new universe.  There were their from the start. Do you agree? 

3) "Alvis lied.  I would think that was quite obvious when he was revealed to be part of the "Trinity", an alliance of characters centuries if not millennia old."

You made a claim here. So, I ask for proof that Alvis indeed lied and also that "Alvis" was part of the "Trinity". 

4) "Klaus has profoundly limited perception of the parallel universes, he can only make out the state of his other self."

That's not exactly correct. He was aware of the end of Zanza, thus that Shulk will have the upper hand and Alvis turns against him. Why not being as confident as Zanza by having both Monados. How could anyone loose the fight? 

"And Klaus did. not. recreate the Trinity Processor.  He even references the fact it was built by a group of people when he speaks with Malos and mentions his name, Logos.  Both it and the state are original. " 

Source? This is where I am referencing the recreation: https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=2058

He created a substance to rebuild the world he has destroyed. Take a note here, that this has been all done after the new universe was created. Next step was creating life. It took, as Klaus said, a time of untold millennia -> Evolution. After the new breed of life was there he didn't trusted the world. Thus he created the final measurement I already said in a previous post. He created the Blades. 

https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=2177

You can see him standing there with his other half being in the other universe. Alvis was already in that universe with Zanza. Ontos was still in the one where Klaus is. And THEN Ontos left the universe for good!

"In short, he is Ontos.  You're overcomplicating what is ultimately a very straight forward and clear reference."

Please restrain yourself from such comments. As I listed above, there are inconsistencies which make me believe that Alvis and Ontos are not the same person. If you got better arguments saying otherwise, let me hear it. So far, you are not convincing. 

Yes, they were there from the start.  Ontos crossed over and became Alvis during or immediately following the Experiment.  When Ontos vanished is unstated, only that he was gone before Klaus could ever use him.  And we never see his Core post experiment, but more on that later.

Alvis was revealed to be one of the Trinity during your battle with him and Dickson outside Colony 9.  His physical form as a Hom was purely a fabrication, obviously.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3kuT9zj-M

By limited I meant he can only, from what we see, perceive what immediately surrounds his other self.  He doesn't see everything over there, just enough to know what's happening to himself.  And it is entirely likely he would not recognize Ontos.  He recognizes Pneuma and Logos because 1) he saw Malos become a blade and 2) they are connected to his global network, with all data from them passing through them.  Being in another dimension, Ontos is obviously outside his reach.  

And look again but closer, in that scene where we see him in front of the Trinity Processor, the bottom left core container is already empty.  We never, not once, see Ontos.  The Trinity Processor is original, it was the processor designed to interface with the Conduit.  The reference to the name is here, in the very video you linked:  https://youtu.be/RzcoSAnpny0?t=360 .  And I don't know why you think he would have to recreate it.  This whole station was left in tact, it would seem silly for the whole of Elysium to survive the experiment but the Trinity Processor be destroyed.  It would make no sense.  

It appears to me that Ontos left the moment he became a blade or rather an Aegis. How can a processor have a will of their own? It's just a unit processing information. It's a part of a computer. On it's own, it's worthless. So, I believe after Klaus modified it to become a blade, he was more than just a processor. But this also doesn't make much sense, since Pneuma and Logos doesn't have a personality of their own. They will get one by the one who is activating them. None of such happened to Ontos... but when we go by the greek meaning... Ontos means existence... so maybe he was something different and had more abilities then the other two.  That's just speculations....

By Alvis being part of the Trinity it means that he (Alvis), Dickson and that crazy bird woman form the Trinity. It's the collective name of Zansa's disciplies.
http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Trinity
That's a dead end. 

Alvis said, that humans curiosity destroyed the whole universe. This doesn't seem to be the case... somehow. Nevertheless, if Ontos disappeared shortly after the experiment or during it, how does Klaus know what he actually did without seeing it first hand? It's not like his focus was on the Trinity processor after the moment life was already evolved and he wanted to create the blades. If he saw that Ontos was already gone at that point, he could just great a new one for that task. I mean, he rebuild the world with modifications. 

I just wait for the DLC and sequel.

So far, Xenoblade 1 was never intended from the start to have a sequel and just be a game of it's own with the name Monade: Beginning of the World.

Personally, referencing Ontos as being Alvis seems pointless, because even by not doing so, we wouldn't much care anyway. Alvis origin was already clear to everyone playing X1. So, I rather see Ontos as being part of Xenoblade 3.

Otherwise they could end the story right here.  

 I'm also done, because there is nothing more to say for me at this point.