By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo should teach their 3rd party supporters their file compression secrets.

d21lewis said:
People wanting the Switch to have bigger built in internal storage, what would you sacrifice?

A.) Portability
B.) Price
C.) Profit???

There has to be a cost. The Switch isn't perfect but I purchased a 256gb SD card and it wasn't cheap!

Well, we already know what Nintendo chose.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Around the Network
Zekkyou said:
irstupid said:
To all those saying you sacrifice and use low textures, worse graphics, or ect. you are comparing current day Nintendo games versus current day other games.

How about compare current day Nintendo against past games. Pretty sure the average Nintendo game is the same size as an Average PS2 game. Now without letting your bias show too much, which games look better?

If you can control for 10 to 20 years of compression and efficiency improvements, the different demands of the time (the PS2 had no download concerns, much more disk space than most developers needed, etc), differences in the design of the average PS2 game vs Nintendo one, the storage advantages and disadvantages of PS2 disks vs Switch cartridges (e.g. Switch cartridges can read much quicker than a DVD, and if need be can install onto the internal memory, both of which allow for more compression leeway), and the different pricing incentives each medium provide (space is at a higher premium on a Switch cartridge), then sure, this would make for an interesting discussion.

Once you've controlled for these, it's also worth noting that the average Nintendo title is actually more comparable in size to 360 games than PS2 ones. Despite all of the above, PS2 games average at about 1GB to 3GB.

Well yes, obviously with advancing technololgy you can do things you couldn't before. Those same 1-3gb PS2 games could be done way smaller today.

The point though is more that through time, Nintendo has been consitently much smaller, or at least stayed small. We just had Splatoon 2 and Mario Odyssey release and both are like 3-5 gb in size. I'm not in the mood to look up older game sizes, such as those on the gamecube. But regardless, Gamecube as more powerful than teh ps2 and had better looking games. Their discs were capped at 1.5 gb. PS2 wasn't outrageous, as you said average was 1-3 gbs. So lets say for argument sake that the ps2 and gamecube looked identical in visuals and also same size. Lets look at next gen then.

PS3 starts getting like 20 gb games or more. Wii still sits around 1-5 gbs. The Wii U the same. (a few exceptions) Look at PS4 games. you are now in the 50-100 gb range for a game. The Switch still around 5 gbs per game.

You bring up advancign technology and effeciency as to why we can't compare Switch size to PS2 size. But I use that same argument to say that PS4/One are not taking advantage of the advanced tech and efficiency. THey are looking lazy.



Alkibiádēs said:
It IS a lack of effort/laziness/not enough talent or skill.

Crash Bandicoot N'sane Trilogy for example has a file size of 24 GB. Is anyone really going to argue that Super Mario Odyssey, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are smaller games then that? I can give you many examples by the way.

Crash has wwaaayyy higher texture quality than anything on the Switch. Like, by a generational margin. Not to mention like 2.5 times the resolution of games like Odyssey.

Last edited by Normchacho - on 02 November 2017

Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

irstupid said:
Zekkyou said:

If you can control for 10 to 20 years of compression and efficiency improvements, the different demands of the time (the PS2 had no download concerns, much more disk space than most developers needed, etc), differences in the design of the average PS2 game vs Nintendo one, the storage advantages and disadvantages of PS2 disks vs Switch cartridges (e.g. Switch cartridges can read much quicker than a DVD, and if need be can install onto the internal memory, both of which allow for more compression leeway), and the different pricing incentives each medium provide (space is at a higher premium on a Switch cartridge), then sure, this would make for an interesting discussion.

Once you've controlled for these, it's also worth noting that the average Nintendo title is actually more comparable in size to 360 games than PS2 ones. Despite all of the above, PS2 games average at about 1GB to 3GB.

Well yes, obviously with advancing technololgy you can do things you couldn't before. Those same 1-3gb PS2 games could be done way smaller today.

The point though is more that through time, Nintendo has been consitently much smaller, or at least stayed small. We just had Splatoon 2 and Mario Odyssey release and both are like 3-5 gb in size. I'm not in the mood to look up older game sizes, such as those on the gamecube. But regardless, Gamecube as more powerful than teh ps2 and had better looking games. Their discs were capped at 1.5 gb. PS2 wasn't outrageous, as you said average was 1-3 gbs. So lets say for argument sake that the ps2 and gamecube looked identical in visuals and also same size. Lets look at next gen then.

PS3 starts getting like 20 gb games or more. Wii still sits around 1-5 gbs. The Wii U the same. (a few exceptions) Look at PS4 games. you are now in the 50-100 gb range for a game. The Switch still around 5 gbs per game.

You bring up advancign technology and effeciency as to why we can't compare Switch size to PS2 size. But I use that same argument to say that PS4/One are not taking advantage of the advanced tech and efficiency. THey are looking lazy.

The technical requirements of a PS4 game are vastly greater than a Switch game. What a silly argument.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

Miguel_Zorro said:

I don't think BOTW is the biggest open world game, is it?

As for size, how much of that comes down to "art style"?

 

Uhmz.

Horizon  is bigger. 

Witcher 3 is bigger. 

 

But i agree if Nintendo  can do it with  a big game like zelda, every  developer should  do  it.



 

My youtube gaming page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/klaudkil

Around the Network
irstupid said:
Zekkyou said:

If you can control for 10 to 20 years of compression and efficiency improvements, the different demands of the time (the PS2 had no download concerns, much more disk space than most developers needed, etc), differences in the design of the average PS2 game vs Nintendo one, the storage advantages and disadvantages of PS2 disks vs Switch cartridges (e.g. Switch cartridges can read much quicker than a DVD, and if need be can install onto the internal memory, both of which allow for more compression leeway), and the different pricing incentives each medium provide (space is at a higher premium on a Switch cartridge), then sure, this would make for an interesting discussion.

Once you've controlled for these, it's also worth noting that the average Nintendo title is actually more comparable in size to 360 games than PS2 ones. Despite all of the above, PS2 games average at about 1GB to 3GB.

Well yes, obviously with advancing technololgy you can do things you couldn't before. Those same 1-3gb PS2 games could be done way smaller today.

The point though is more that through time, Nintendo has been consitently much smaller, or at least stayed small. We just had Splatoon 2 and Mario Odyssey release and both are like 3-5 gb in size. I'm not in the mood to look up older game sizes, such as those on the gamecube. But regardless, Gamecube as more powerful than teh ps2 and had better looking games. Their discs were capped at 1.5 gb. PS2 wasn't outrageous, as you said average was 1-3 gbs. So lets say for argument sake that the ps2 and gamecube looked identical in visuals and also same size. Lets look at next gen then.

PS3 starts getting like 20 gb games or more. Wii still sits around 1-5 gbs. The Wii U the same. (a few exceptions) Look at PS4 games. you are now in the 50-100 gb range for a game. The Switch still around 5 gbs per game.

You bring up advancign technology and effeciency as to why we can't compare Switch size to PS2 size. But I use that same argument to say that PS4/One are not taking advantage of the advanced tech and efficiency. THey are looking lazy.

And you don't think it might have something to do with the type of games Nintendo is doing compared to AAA games on other platforms? Key word here is "assets".



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Normchacho said:
Alkibiádēs said:
It IS a lack of effort/laziness/not enough talent or skill.

Crash Bandicoot N'sane Trilogy for example has a file size of 24 GB. Is anyone really going to argue that Super Mario Odyssey, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are smaller games then that? I can give you many examples by the way.

Crash has wwaaayyy higher texture quality than anything on the Switch. Like, by a generational margin. Not to mention like 2.5 times the resolution of games like Odyssey.

It's an extremely linear platformer, I don't see anything on that game that couldn't be done on the Switch, besides the resolution perhaps. 

Have you ever even touched a Switch game? Take a look at the Lost Kingdom in Super Mario Odyssey, it has some impressive lighting, texture work and water shaders. 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

DonFerrari said:

But it didn't become common in X360 until the arcade version wasn't the most common use. It took quite some time for installing in X360 to become common from what I gauged on VGC.

Unless those guys were just bitching at Sony for having it mandatory (and most games didn't even had much of the data installed) were already installing for the added perfomance, but used the point just for console war sake.

I'm not sure what your point is. This reeks of you being angry at a few random, faceless and nameless people rather than making a consistent point all across, which in essence makes me unable to understand whatever you're trying to say.



Alkibiádēs said:
Normchacho said:

Crash has wwaaayyy higher texture quality than anything on the Switch. Like, by a generational margin. Not to mention like 2.5 times the resolution of games like Odyssey.

It's an extremely linear platformer, I don't see anything on that game that couldn't be done on the Switch, besides the resolution perhaps. 

Have you ever even touched a Switch game? Take a look at the Lost Kingdom in Super Mario Odyssey, it has some impressive lighting, texture work and water shaders. 

yes, I have indeed touched a Switch game, several, including Mario Odyssey...

Is that screenshot really supposed to convince me that the visuals are on par with this?:

 

The image you shared is impressive compared to what? I mean, it's not like Crash is the only example either. Ratchet & Clank is about 2GB larger than Crash, are you going to try and argue that it shouldn't be much larger than Odyssey either?



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

irstupid said:

Well yes, obviously with advancing technololgy you can do things you couldn't before. Those same 1-3gb PS2 games could be done way smaller today.

The point though is more that through time, Nintendo has been consitently much smaller, or at least stayed small. We just had Splatoon 2 and Mario Odyssey release and both are like 3-5 gb in size. I'm not in the mood to look up older game sizes, such as those on the gamecube. But regardless, Gamecube as more powerful than teh ps2 and had better looking games. Their discs were capped at 1.5 gb. PS2 wasn't outrageous, as you said average was 1-3 gbs. So lets say for argument sake that the ps2 and gamecube looked identical in visuals and also same size. Lets look at next gen then.

PS3 starts getting like 20 gb games or more. Wii still sits around 1-5 gbs. The Wii U the same. (a few exceptions) Look at PS4 games. you are now in the 50-100 gb range for a game. The Switch still around 5 gbs per game.

You bring up advancign technology and effeciency as to why we can't compare Switch size to PS2 size. But I use that same argument to say that PS4/One are not taking advantage of the advanced tech and efficiency. THey are looking lazy.

And yet for all Nintendo's apparent compression mastery, there's a huge degree of variance in their file sizes. Zelda is 6+ times larger than ARMS. XCX is a further twice~ the size of Zelda, and that with heavy compression. NSMB WiiU is 2GB~, yet Tropical Freeze is 11GB~.

The closer to the technical and design philosophies of the average PS4/X1 title Nintendo go, the closer they get to the file size range we expect from games of that technical quality. XCX for instance isn't large because Monolith are incompetent and lazy, in-fact they're one of Nintendo's most technically capable developers. XCX is large because that's what its design and technical choices dictate. Now imagine it was making use of assets comparable to something like Horizon, was storing hours of motion captured animation data, etc. I honestly doubt it'd fit on a double sided blu-ray.

There are many lazy developers out there, and Nintendo do push their compression harder than average (they have more reasons than most to accept the negatives associated with it), but the way people constantly frame this discussion is absurd. It was silly with the WiiU, and it's even sillier now that we're comparing disks to cartridges. These threads make me feel the same way as the ones where Sony fans claim PS4 exclusives are graphically superior to anything on PC. It's silly, and frequently demonstrates a severe lack of understanding about the details of the topic.

Developers make decisions that best suit the environment they're working in. If a platform can allow for better loading times, less burden on the CPU, and less time spent on storage optimisation, they'll take advantage of that. There are some developers that take the piss, but most PS4 and X1 titles go for a middle ground between compression and the advantages of its absence. While some might prefer otherwise, it's not lazy.

Last edited by Zekkyou - on 02 November 2017