Forums - Politics Discussion - Catalonia declares independence. Puigdemont free to roam Belgium.

Who do you support?

Spain 139 59.40%
 
Catalonia 95 40.60%
 
Total:234
Nem said:
Goodnightmoon said:

I do. Meanwhile you only talk about medieval fantasies and alternative facts.

Of course you do. You know a hell of alot of your bellybutton. :)

In the last hours the Government of the Basque Country has publicly rejected the independence of Catalonia. Even the most independentist region of Spain thinks all this process was bullshit and completely ilegitim lol Now try to rationalize that xD

Last edited by Goodnightmoon - on 19 November 2017

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Yeah...
I also saw (PSOE/regionalist ruled) Aragon finally enforced standing court judgments for the return of religious/cultural treasures,
previous Catalan government having refused to comply with court rulings, but suspension by 155 removed that impediment.
So seems that plenty of Spanish autonomous regions are not impressed with Catalan nationalists' arrogant view to the law.



So the 'legitimate government of Catalonia' (suspended for violating Spain Constitution, to be replaced in Dec election) posted image of themselves, photoshopping out former minister Santi Vila who quit due to rejecting their illegal declaration of independence. Except they forgot to remove his feet. LOL Other funny thing about pic. No Spanish flag, obviously, they are good nationalists. But there is still EU flag. Which is kind of funny because EU has made clear that even in situation where Catalan independence was recognized, they would not be part of EU until they apply and are approved by existing members. Maybe if I hang an EU flag above my toilet, I can be the next member of the EU also. I think they should also add the flag for Star Trek's Federation. Then they can issue press releases like "We will only negotiate with Madrid according to the Prime Directive". 

EDIT: Best take? 

"Doc, look at the photo. Santi Vila is disappearing."
"Marty, what did you do when you travelled back in time?"
"Nothing, Doc, it was just a DUI... They told me it was just symbolic."
"Marty, listen to me. You have to go back in time and make sure Rajoy and Puigdemont get married."

Last edited by mutantsushi - on 19 November 2017

In Spanish, article on project for regional reform not based on pleasing nationalist concerns:
https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/andalucia/2017-11-24/bescansa-defiende-constitucion-no-gustara-nacionalistas-iglesias_1483303/
Carolina Bescansa proposes new constitution with French style 2-round presidential system,
senate with role re: regional budget, separating that function from lower house & it's ruling majority,
and legal basis for separatism needing supermajority elections/referendum, contra to vague 'right to decide'.
I am not clear on her idea of senate functioning with basic majority or supermajority style rules...?
To me, such topics should be based on agreed formula accounting for local cost of living / salaries + non-local costs.
And shouldn't need to be voted on anew every year, since formula would accomodate yearly changes.
I guess she doesn't address territorial divisions as such, which seem somewhat arbitrary as modern political entities,
e.g. why not have senate function on provinces not regions? would referendums be on province or region basis?
What of linguistic communities crossing current region boundaries (Catalan/Valencia/Baleares, Asturias + Leon?)
But over all it aims for equitable and symmetric system centered on single plurinational nation,
not cutting assymetric deals with specific groups, but developing coherent federal model for all equally.

Ruling PP as well as PSOE and rest of Podemos seeming to more support current assymetric cut-out deal
with Basque & Navarre, and more amenable to arranging the same for Catalonia AFAIK. Which IMHO is not
stable basis for future because it cements 1-v-1 perspective instead of cultivating discourse amongst entire plurality.