Have I said you said you hate it?

There were plenty of threads with people hating on GTS for the sake of hating. And rarely haters will say they hate, they will just "justify" that it deserves hate.

I don't think Turn 10 are three times more efficent then PD but they are pretty efficient since they are in charge of the car models and DLC cars for both the Motorsports and Horizon games.  Also as far as I know they no longer outsource any of their work.  As far as adding new cars in fast manner Turn 10 is the best when it comes to adding tracks in a timely manner Slightly Mad Studios is the best but not all of their tracks are 100% accurate. 

Well, let's put it like this. It doesn't deserve hate. It deserves constructive criticism. Fortunately, it is getting that constructive criticism, so the next game has much chances of being exceptional if PD choose to hear most of us. I have hopes that GT7 combines the best parts of GT5 (endurance races, course creator), GT6 (meaty campaign, dynamic weather, 350 premium cars, a lot of tracks, ability to upgrade cars), and GT sport (great online races, livery editor, photo mode, improved car sounds, best in class graphics and lighting) and mixes it all in a blender to create what would easily be the best GT. It's only a minority, the trollers and haters, that bash the game just for the heck of it. Many GT fans themselves are discontent with the game ATM.

By GT4 standards, I don't mean that the game literally has to be like GT4. What I mean by this is that no GT will be able to push the needle like GT3 and GT4. When GT4 came out, it was the gold standard for sim racers. 700 cars was insane at that time. The track collection was also outright insane for that time. The physics were top notch (not to say the physics aren't top notch now), and it was also one of the first games to be in 1080i resolution. They also introduced dirt racing to the mix. the game was miles ahead of competitors like forza 1 (and even forza 2 I would say). By GT4 standard I mean I want the new game to be as good in 2017 as GT4 was in 2005, if you get what I mean. 

Gt5 and Gt6 were still great, but they played too safe and were a bit stuck in the past. Gt5 had the used car market, paint chips, no livery editor, and 800 cars from GT4, which looked great in 2005, but not so much in 2010. Some tracks were astonishingly beautiful, but other like trial mountain (I think that's the name) were straight up imported from GT4 and slightly enhanced. GT5 is better than GT4 if you just straight up compare them, but if you take into influence the times the games came out, GT4 absolutely beats gt5. 

Keep up the personal attacks, you are doing fine. When below 8 in scores are considered bad any good game getting below 8 is a trolling.

Uh, what? It's not a personal attack to repeat something you've said here. Hell, it's not even an attack at all. Unless you think what you said was so silly that it feels like an attack? I could see that.

And an 8 is a fine score, unless you're predisposed to giving games in a franchise 10's and think anything below a 9 is not valid. I guess in that case an 8 might be a "bad" score. Doesn't it have a 55 now though? Yikes.

I get what you mean, but I don't think that's possible anymore in this age with Project cars, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Forza, there's no way to outdo them all GT4 style. You said it yourself GT5 and GT6 were getting stale and a mish mash of assets from different generations, they needed to mix up the formula, start over.

GT5 also added procedurally generated rally tracks, track editor, karting, nascar, day/night cycles, weather, weekly challenges, dlc, online racing, special events, quadruple the resolution (max 640x540 in 1080i mode to 1280x1080) and still you say GT4 absolutely beats GT5. It's kinda obvious that staying on the same track with GT7 would never have been enough.

PD started fresh, made a new future proof engine which they'll be able to use for a long time. Everything is made for bt.2020 color space and HDR, which is groundreaking for 2017. A bit too groundbreaking since no displays exists yet that can fully show bt.2020. All assets have been made up to that standard, but that takes time. Was it a smart move, if they survive the backlash, yes smooth sailing from here on out. No problems transitioning to next gen, nothing like coming from GT6, a mish mash of ps2 and ps3 code and assets.

The new focus is competitive racing, couple with e-sports and actual licenses, so I can understand why the focus was on the newer car categories first. However there are plenty references to the good old days in the UI so I don't doubt historic stuff will make it in one day.

But the always online thing was perhaps one step too far, too soon.

Well, I guess you could look at it that way. Perhaps GT sport is for the competitive/hardcore, while caR-PG junkies like me just need to be a little patient and wait their turn. Maybe polyphony learned a lesson from gt5 and chose not to import gt6 premium models, which to me seems like the wrong thing happened at the wrong time, cause PS3 models in PS4 GT would probably be much less noticeable than PS2 models in PS3 GT, since the jump between graphics is way smaller from PS3 to PS4 than it is from PS2 to PS3. But in the end, I guess maybe starting from scratch and taking a hit im the short term might be the better option to make the long term look better.

Also interesting and informative.   So you'd lay the choices - and thus the failures of those choices at Polophonys feet, and not Sony then? Or perhaps Sony is some what at fault for not reigning in Kaz at some point.

The trouble is there is very little rational for Sony to intervene , after all GT5 sold in huge numbers and the profit margin would have been great seeing that GT5 prologue's 5 million sales would have paid for it's development. GT6 coming toward the end of the PS3's life and because of the use of the development  platform used to create GT5 those   would  be seen as mitigating circumstances in regard to it's sales position so wouldn't be seen as a black mark against him.

All they have to go on is the fact that it is still a huge  franchise , and why upset the apple cart on isssues that may  be subject to change with a game barely out , now if the perceived problems turn out to be long term negatives that affect the series then the most likely cause of action is persuasion.

I agree with this. PPL seem to forget that after the original GT Polyphony were made into an autonomous entity within SIE. They have gone on to make the most successful IP that Sony owns. Sony makes money off these games. if Kaz feels the need to try something different then Sony will let him do it because has earned that level of trust and respect. Its teh same with ND: they can effectively make whatever game they want and SOny will greenlight it (within reason I am sure).

When GTS bombs then yeah, then can be a reevauation of what needs to be done to course correct. But that hasnt happened yet.