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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How Blizzard ruined gaming, now every game has lootboxes

vivster said:
Cloudman said:

Well, I was only playing what little devil's advocate there is for loot boxes. I think they're terrible practices that shouldn't be in games. Although I do think it's a little sad when a solid game has to be punished because of something like loot boxes.

Why shouldn't it be considered in a review? Games with loot boxes have been deliberately made worse. That sounds like something that should be considered. Loot boxes change the whole game.

A game consists of a lot more than just gameplay. And if a game wants a great score it should be great in all aspects. A high score means that all aspects should be high quality. Of course one aspect that's terrible will drag down the score.

I don't mean punishing said games via scores, but in terms of sale. While I think games selling poorly due to the use of loot boxes may be a way to get the message across to developers, on the other hand having having a good game bomb would be quite unfortunate. 



 

              

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vivster said:

The problem isn't just the exploitative manner in which they are implemented. A loot box system is not something that just goes on top of everything. A game is shaped around them to entice people to spend real money. That means even if you don't care about loot boxes or simply ignore them you will still play a game that's worse than what it would be without loot boxes. That's the simple truth, to make loot boxes enticing you have to make the game as a whole worse so that people spend money to make it worth playing again. If loot boxes were actually fair or inconsequential they wouldn't exist because nobody would buy them.

Customization is a huge part of online gaming because it is very much a social experience and everyone wants to look their best or unique. Greedy publishers hide behind that fact because there are still people defending micro transactions  and loot boxes as "just cosmetic". While they are hiding more and more content behind paywalls. And not just normal paywalls, but huge ones. Thanks to loot boxes you nowadays pay 10 or 20 or even more bucks just for a single item. Imagine public reactions if those were direct ingame purchases.

Loot boxes are way more insidious than just micro transactions. Remember how we hated those? And that's not even accounting for the fact that these companies are specifically targeting individuals with addictive personalities. At this point it stops being innocent and starts being just evil.

Not protesting it now means it's gonna get only worse.

You are the real MVP.

Nothing about lootboxes is consumer friendly. Those who defend this practice are masochists (unless of course, they are implementing the lootboxes and profiting from them). There is no justification for this system. It devalues the game, so people will spend money to add value to the full-priced game that they have purchased. It also preys on those with gambling and/or compulsive spending tendencies and/or addictive personalities. Games marketed towards children can have these lootbox systems, therefore it also targets those who struggle to rationally analyse or criticise such practices. 

What makes this worse than gambling, is the fact that gambling actually provides a chance (albeit an incredibly slim chance) at monetary gain. Lootboxes give you the chance to gain a cosmetic look within a game, or the chance at getting an overpowered perk - thus disadvantaging other players - coercing them to get the lootbox to stay competitive. Thus spending money to roll an imaginary die. Like Vivster pointed out, lootcrates are an exploitative system.

Lootboxes lock away content that is already a part of the game. Some people have complained that DLC does this, however, at least DLC will guarantee you that content and will usually offer content post release. DLC usually consists of new content when done right (Witcher 3, Skyrim, Mario Kart 8 etc.). 



Captain_Yuri said:
Ruler said:

Yeah but why are you using it as argument that has no legal ground, they can do what ever they want the next day. You unlocked everything for free in overwatch because this is your main game your playing online, but would you like it to have this system in every game? Because you cant play all games the same amount like you do in overwatch, but you will found more and more content from other games being locked behind randomized lootboxes where it wasnt the case before, if blizzard does it why shouldnt other companies now? Its a bad bussines pracitice, its way cheaper to just pick and choose what ever you want as your skin, now we have to gamble.

And this argument that you can get everything for free by playing the game works with every game which has microtransactions. The difference here is that lootboxes randomizes the unlockables unlike progressive microtransactions before, it means you play even more to get what you want.

Starcraft 2 proofs that Blizzard does change its games to further milk its fanbases, its like the most milked game in existance inside the milky way by now,

1x 60$ game

x2 50$ expnasions (mandatory for latest multiplayer)

x1 25$ Story Nova DLC

x10 5$ for story coop commanders

x times 10$ for warchest

x times 150$ for every release of a blizzard collectors edtion for exclusive scins

x times 40$ for every blizzcon virtual ticket  for exclusive scins 

=2000$ or something


You see they still seprate DLC for your overwatch by making skins exclusive to blizzcon virtual ticket

 

 

 

Yea I would cause if the system in every game is just cosmetics locked behind loot boxes but I get maps and character dlc for free, then I don't mind that one bit since cosmetics don't affect gameplay... If other games however lock characters/maps/stuff that affects the gameplay behind loot boxes, then it is not the same implementation as overwatch.

And no it doesn't. There are plenty of games that have micro-transactions which do not allow you to unlock them by just playing the game. And also notice how I used "unlocked in a reasonable way" which is what overwatch does... As you play more games in overwatch and you level up, you get more lootboxes which either gives you skins or gold or both. With the gold you get, you can use it to unlock whatever skins that you want and not be limited to the random skins the lootboxes give you...

You do realize that every company has different devisions that work on different games and have different pricing models right? Like for example with Nintendo. You have games like Splatoon which has free dlc and you have games like Fire Emblem which has micro-transactions up the arse... Same with Sony, you have games like Gravity Rush 2 which gives you free DLC and you have Uncharted which also has micro-transactions and lootboxes...

Does that mean every Sony and Nintendo game will have micro-transactions? No... Does that mean every company is capable of doing anything? Yes... But that makes your point moot cause every company is capable of it...

Yeah but the difference is that Fireemblem and Uncharted 4 have a big singleplayer campaign and enough content on its own, not that it would excuse microtransactions but brings things into perspective. Its beyond me how people can say that Blizzard is doing microtransactions right but now all of the sudden EA or Warner Brothers arent? If you add 2+2 together Overtwach is the worse package for a 60$ game.

From what i know the Gold is giving you much less value what you paid if you transfor a duplicate into gold. And i still fail to see your argument how randomized lootboxes are supposed to give you free DLC, but traditional microtransactions arent? If you can buy whatever you want with Gold in overwatch why not giving only Gold instead of 4 random items? Wouldnt that be easier to unlock everything, kinda how microtransactions used to work before overwatch?



Ruler said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Yea I would cause if the system in every game is just cosmetics locked behind loot boxes but I get maps and character dlc for free, then I don't mind that one bit since cosmetics don't affect gameplay... If other games however lock characters/maps/stuff that affects the gameplay behind loot boxes, then it is not the same implementation as overwatch.

And no it doesn't. There are plenty of games that have micro-transactions which do not allow you to unlock them by just playing the game. And also notice how I used "unlocked in a reasonable way" which is what overwatch does... As you play more games in overwatch and you level up, you get more lootboxes which either gives you skins or gold or both. With the gold you get, you can use it to unlock whatever skins that you want and not be limited to the random skins the lootboxes give you...

You do realize that every company has different devisions that work on different games and have different pricing models right? Like for example with Nintendo. You have games like Splatoon which has free dlc and you have games like Fire Emblem which has micro-transactions up the arse... Same with Sony, you have games like Gravity Rush 2 which gives you free DLC and you have Uncharted which also has micro-transactions and lootboxes...

Does that mean every Sony and Nintendo game will have micro-transactions? No... Does that mean every company is capable of doing anything? Yes... But that makes your point moot cause every company is capable of it...

Yeah but the difference is that Fireemblem and Uncharted 4 have a big singleplayer campaign and enough content on its own, not that it would excuse microtransactions but brings things into perspective. Its beyond me how people can say that Blizzard is doing microtransactions right but now all of the sudden EA or Warner Brothers arent? If you add 2+2 together Overtwach is the worse package for a 60$ game.

From what i know the Gold is giving you much less value what you paid if you transfor a duplicate into gold. And i still fail to see your argument how randomized lootboxes are supposed to give you free DLC, but traditional microtransactions arent? If you can buy whatever you want with Gold in overwatch why not giving only Gold instead of 4 random items? Wouldnt that be easier to unlock everything, kinda like microtransactions used to work before overwatch?

Sounds like someone is moving goal posts... Also if the implementation of EA/WB is the same as overwatch, then I have no issues. Keyword is "same."

Gold does give you much less for duplicate but I fail to see how that is relevant. I never said traditional Micro-transactions can't give you free dlc but from my experience, traditional micro-transactions lock items and etc behind a paywall with no way to unlock them via in-game currency or the ability to unlock them requires an unreasonable amount of time.

It would be easier but less profitable for blizzard most likely since people would just buy the skins they want and then not spend a cent more. Plus the "whales" won't spend as much as they potentially could. I never said there isn't greed involved with microtransactions and the way it is implemented in overwatch but what I am saying is between the way overwatch has implemented it's micro-transactions vs the general pay for dlc method, I'd rather have overwatch's implementation.

There are obviously better "for the gamers" way to do post game content. I think splatoon's way is the most consumer friendly method where you get a single player campaign and free dlc for a year with tons of updates and zero microtransactions and many more things but it's clear the companies don't want to adopt that method since it doesn't make enough money for them. So if the future has to be between paid dlc, traditional micro-transactions with locked content behind them without any way to unlock them with in-game currency/unlocking them with an unreasonable amount of time or overwatch's lootbox implementation with free dlc that affects the gameplay and cosmetics that can be unlocked within a reasonable time. I'd rather choose overwatch's implementation than the other two.



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Captain_Yuri said:
Ruler said:

Yeah but the difference is that Fireemblem and Uncharted 4 have a big singleplayer campaign and enough content on its own, not that it would excuse microtransactions but brings things into perspective. Its beyond me how people can say that Blizzard is doing microtransactions right but now all of the sudden EA or Warner Brothers arent? If you add 2+2 together Overtwach is the worse package for a 60$ game.

From what i know the Gold is giving you much less value what you paid if you transfor a duplicate into gold. And i still fail to see your argument how randomized lootboxes are supposed to give you free DLC, but traditional microtransactions arent? If you can buy whatever you want with Gold in overwatch why not giving only Gold instead of 4 random items? Wouldnt that be easier to unlock everything, kinda like microtransactions used to work before overwatch?

Sounds like someone is moving goal posts... Also if the implementation of EA/WB is the same as overwatch, then I have no issues. Keyword is "same."

Gold does give you much less for duplicate but I fail to see how that is relevant. I never said traditional Micro-transactions can't give you free dlc but from my experience, traditional micro-transactions lock items and etc behind a paywall with no way to unlock them via in-game currency or the ability to unlock them requires an unreasonable amount of time.

It would be easier but less profitable for blizzard most likely since people would just buy the skins they want and then not spend a cent more. Plus the "whales" won't spend as much as they potentially could. I never said there isn't greed involved with microtransactions and the way it is implemented in overwatch but what I am saying is between the way overwatch has implemented it's micro-transactions vs the general pay for dlc method, I'd rather have overwatch's implementation.

There are obviously better "for the gamers" way to do post game content. I think splatoon's way is the most consumer friendly method where you get a single player campaign and free dlc for a year with tons of updates and zero microtransactions and many more things but it's clear the companies don't want to adopt that method since it doesn't make enough money for them. So if the future has to be between paid dlc, traditional micro-transactions with locked content behind them without any way to unlock them with in-game currency/unlocking them with an unreasonable amount of time or overwatch's lootbox implementation with free dlc that affects the gameplay and cosmetics that can be unlocked within a reasonable time. I'd rather choose overwatch's implementation than the other two.

-Blizzcon is locking DLC behind a paywall.

-Blizzard has made enough money from charging for online in world warcraft, hearthstone or the 60$ price tag of overwatch. Poor poor blizzard, its not as profitable for them.

-There are tons of games having microtransactions where everything is for free without lootboxes.

-How about this? Instead wastiung recources for new updates and DLC and ccharging for microtransactions, how about making a brand new game which you can sell for 60$ again? Certainly it doesnt work with this company, they need 10 years to release a beta for a game, if they havent canceled it allready.



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Ruler said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Sounds like someone is moving goal posts... Also if the implementation of EA/WB is the same as overwatch, then I have no issues. Keyword is "same."

Gold does give you much less for duplicate but I fail to see how that is relevant. I never said traditional Micro-transactions can't give you free dlc but from my experience, traditional micro-transactions lock items and etc behind a paywall with no way to unlock them via in-game currency or the ability to unlock them requires an unreasonable amount of time.

It would be easier but less profitable for blizzard most likely since people would just buy the skins they want and then not spend a cent more. Plus the "whales" won't spend as much as they potentially could. I never said there isn't greed involved with microtransactions and the way it is implemented in overwatch but what I am saying is between the way overwatch has implemented it's micro-transactions vs the general pay for dlc method, I'd rather have overwatch's implementation.

There are obviously better "for the gamers" way to do post game content. I think splatoon's way is the most consumer friendly method where you get a single player campaign and free dlc for a year with tons of updates and zero microtransactions and many more things but it's clear the companies don't want to adopt that method since it doesn't make enough money for them. So if the future has to be between paid dlc, traditional micro-transactions with locked content behind them without any way to unlock them with in-game currency/unlocking them with an unreasonable amount of time or overwatch's lootbox implementation with free dlc that affects the gameplay and cosmetics that can be unlocked within a reasonable time. I'd rather choose overwatch's implementation than the other two.

-Blizzcon is locking DLC behind a paywall.

-Blizzard has made enough money from charging for online in world warcraft, hearthstone or the 60$ price tag of overwatch. Poor poor blizzard, its not as profitable for them.

-There are tons of games having microtransactions where everything is for free without lootboxes.

-How about this? Instead wastiung recources for new updates and DLC and ccharging for microtransactions, how about making a brand new game which you can sell for 60$ again? Certainly it doesnt work with this company, they need 10 years to release a beta for a game, if they havent canceled it allready.

Actually, it's just cosmetics that don't affect gameplay in anyway as far as Overwatch is concerned. Not dlc that directly affects gameplay. If you really want to be nit picky then sure, one skin per year gets locked behind a paywall but apart from that... I still prefer overwatch's method.

"-Blizzard has made enough money from charging for online in world warcraft, hearthstone or the 60$ price tag of overwatch. Poor poor blizzard, its not as profitable for them."

Ok? What does that have to do with anything? You do realize every company does dlc or micro-transactions or lootboxes right regardless of how well some of their games have done before right? I mean heck, uncharted 4 has both micro-transactions and lootboxes even though the franchise has been widely successful lul.

"-There are tons of games having microtransactions where everything is for free without lootboxes."

Huh? That doesn't make any sense... If a game has micro-transactions... Clearly not everything is free...

You seem very tilted lmao. Did Blizzard kill your dog or something? Companies making dlc/micro-transactions/updates instead of using those resources towards a new game isn't a Blizzard issue, it's an industry issue since we see many companies do it including Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/EA/WB/etc...



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Nem said:
Azzanation said:

Did Kinder Suprise get banned for gambling reasons or for a choking hazard?

Does it matter? Doesn't change my point.

Well... i honestly don't know why they were banned. Could've been or not. But yeah... my argument wasn't hanging on it. ;)



Captain_Yuri said:
Ruler said:

-Blizzcon is locking DLC behind a paywall.

-Blizzard has made enough money from charging for online in world warcraft, hearthstone or the 60$ price tag of overwatch. Poor poor blizzard, its not as profitable for them.

-There are tons of games having microtransactions where everything is for free without lootboxes.

-How about this? Instead wastiung recources for new updates and DLC and ccharging for microtransactions, how about making a brand new game which you can sell for 60$ again? Certainly it doesnt work with this company, they need 10 years to release a beta for a game, if they havent canceled it allready.

Actually, it's just cosmetics that don't affect gameplay in anyway as far as Overwatch is concerned. Not dlc that directly affects gameplay. If you really want to be nit picky then sure, one skin per year gets locked behind a paywall but apart from that... I still prefer overwatch's method.

"-Blizzard has made enough money from charging for online in world warcraft, hearthstone or the 60$ price tag of overwatch. Poor poor blizzard, its not as profitable for them."

Ok? What does that have to do with anything? You do realize every company does dlc or micro-transactions or lootboxes right regardless of how well some of their games have done before right? I mean heck, uncharted 4 has both micro-transactions and lootboxes even though the franchise has been widely successful lul.

"-There are tons of games having microtransactions where everything is for free without lootboxes."

Huh? That doesn't make any sense... If a game has micro-transactions... Clearly not everything is free...

You seem very tilted lmao. Did Blizzard kill your dog or something? Companies making dlc/micro-transactions/updates instead of using those resources towards a new game isn't a Blizzard issue, it's an industry issue since we see many companies do it including Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/EA/WB/etc...

Yeah but guess whos most  lazy one with producing new games? From 2004 they only released 7 games okay. I am pretty sure the game list is massive for Nintendo, Sony, WB or EA during the same timeframe. Its quite redicolous how Blizzard has 10 times more revenue than Capcom, while Capcom has brought 50 times more released games than blizzard on the table, and most of them are good if not even better than Blizzards 7 games.

I am not excusing Uncharted 4 but again at least it has a big single player campaign. With overwatch the cosmetic items are playing a larger role than in uncharted 4 or other games who have a lot more content than overwatch. For me cosmetic items locked behind a microtransaction sheme is just as bad  as singleplayer microtransctions, espacially in overwatch which doesnt have a singleplayer caompaign.

''Huh? That doesn't make any sense... If a game has micro-transactions... Clearly not everything is free...''

Yeah and neither it is with overwatches randomized lootbox microtransactions, whats your point?


Ruler said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Actually, it's just cosmetics that don't affect gameplay in anyway as far as Overwatch is concerned. Not dlc that directly affects gameplay. If you really want to be nit picky then sure, one skin per year gets locked behind a paywall but apart from that... I still prefer overwatch's method.

"-Blizzard has made enough money from charging for online in world warcraft, hearthstone or the 60$ price tag of overwatch. Poor poor blizzard, its not as profitable for them."

Ok? What does that have to do with anything? You do realize every company does dlc or micro-transactions or lootboxes right regardless of how well some of their games have done before right? I mean heck, uncharted 4 has both micro-transactions and lootboxes even though the franchise has been widely successful lul.

"-There are tons of games having microtransactions where everything is for free without lootboxes."

Huh? That doesn't make any sense... If a game has micro-transactions... Clearly not everything is free...

You seem very tilted lmao. Did Blizzard kill your dog or something? Companies making dlc/micro-transactions/updates instead of using those resources towards a new game isn't a Blizzard issue, it's an industry issue since we see many companies do it including Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/EA/WB/etc...

Yeah but guess whos most  lazy one with producing new games? From 2004 they only released 7 games okay. I am pretty sure the game list is massive for Nintendo, Sony, WB or EA during the same timeframe. Its quite redicolous how Blizzard has 10 times more revenue than Capcom, while Capcom has brought 50 times more released games than blizzard on the table, and most of them are good if not even better than Blizzards 7 games.

I am not excusing Uncharted 4 but again at least it has a big single player campaign. With overwatch the cosmetic items are playing a larger role than in uncharted 4 or other games who have a lot more content than overwatch. For me cosmetic items locked behind a microtransaction sheme is just as bad  as singleplayer microtransctions, espacially in overwatch which doesnt have a singleplayer caompaign.

''Huh? That doesn't make any sense... If a game has micro-transactions... Clearly not everything is free...''

Yeah and neither it is with overwatches randomized lootbox microtransactions, whats your point?

But that's not relevant to anything... Really you are just moving goal posts at this point.

But it does sound like you are giving UC4 more of a pass compared to overwatch or really any blizzard games... Starcraft 2 LoTV has a single player campaign which in length is similar to UC4

https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=9154

https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=20077

They both have micro-transactions for online but UC4 takes it one step further by also having lootboxes...

Now let me guess what your argument is going to be... It will probably be something like oh but UC4 has better graphics and is more fun for me so it makes it more okay than in sc2 which is just an rts... To which I will say... Sounds like you are bias.

"Yeah and neither it is with overwatches randomized lootbox microtransactions, whats your point?"

My point is... Again... The dlc that affects gameplay is free in overwatch... The micro-transactions are obviously not...

I think this is just going around in circles with a lot of moving goal posts so I am gonna go ahead and probably not reply after this comment. You can have the last word since it's pretty clear that it's less about how blizzard is "ruining gaming" and more about "I hate blizzard cause they molested me when I was younger"



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Uncharted 4 has loot boxes? LOL. What in the actual fuck?

tripenfall said:
Nintendo still make AAA games with no microtransactions, no massive day 1 patches, no day 1 DLC and no rushed to market games full of glitches.
Just saying....

If you completely ignore that Amiibos exist, then sure. Personally I'd take a shady DLC/microtransaction deal over what Nintendo does with Amiibos, locking content behind your ability to find and buy an expensive toy.

Anyways, why would you blame Blizzard, when their interpretation of lootboxes is like... one of the only ones to do it right? Isn't the blame on those who take that idea and turn it into a negative? Your hard on for giving Blizzard shit isn't an excuse for such a large leap in logic.