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Forums - Politics Discussion - Being anti-nazi shouldn't be political or controversial

 

Fuck nazis

Hell yeah 139 100.00%
 
Total:139
CrazyGamer2017 said:
HomokHarcos said:

So because you think the idea is harmful you think people should be banned from making those statements? You know there's people who think video games in themselves are violent and harmful to society, and I doubt you would like to see them banned. In my opinion people should make effective arguments against ideologies they think is harmful, rather than just banning people from saying certain things.

 

Man I couldn't agree more. Banning someone cause you disagree with them EVEN if you can reasonably think what they say is wrong is becomeone oneself an agent of anti-free speech and one cannot criticize fascism or hatred or whatever if one begin applying "the enemy's tactics".

Free speech is important but I still believe to spread fascist ideas, hatred and lies should be judiciary punishable by the system. Excuse me, I'm German. I was raised to think that way.



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DarthMetalliCube said:
StarOcean said:

No. I do not believe in free speech. It allows for hate groups to exist. Any hate ideologies such as Nazism, racism, sexism, etc in their purest form (not the bastardized versions) should be punished. We send terrorists to Guantonomo Bay, solitary confinement indefinitely for many of them. That's what would be done to those sorts of people. There aren't many people like it thankfully, but they deserve no platform to spread their idealogies and must be stopped at the source. 

Fair enough.. Though I'd counter with a few key points -

For one, why focus on the negative? Free speech will inevitably bring out some horrible speech, but it will also bring out some great speech that might have otherwise been suppressed. Hell, I believe we probably wouldn't have many of the technologies, religions, and theories, and philosophical concepts we have today if not for the free exchange of ideas.

Second, this "supression of hate groups" sounds nice in theory, though I'd aruge that attempting them to silence them through force or threats would only serve to boost their cause and give them more power, as they'd be able to claim victimhood by pointing to these attempts of silencing them.

Additionally, how do you decide who makes these decisions of who can say what? Who decides what speech is tolerable and what isn't? And what makes them qualified? Do they have some sort of agenda of their own that might make them want to suppress certain speech? What makes these people in power so special, and the keepers of information/morality?

And again, the suppresion of free speech IS ironically a sort of Nazism/Fascism, so those attempting to silence it would ironcally sort of BECOME what they're trying to silence in some ways.. Authority figures and governments are just as capable of hate - who's to say they can't abuse this power to merely silence OTHER forms of hate (or worse, ideas they falsely VIEW as hate) while enforcing their own? They're still only human after all..

The whole practice, of placing such empasis and importance on mere words and ideas, sets and extremely bad precedent and sets the stage for a chaotic, oppressive society from my view, full of an extrememly angry and repressed masses of people.

 

Aeolus451 said:
StarOcean said:

No. I do not believe in free speech. It allows for hate groups to exist. Any hate ideologies such as Nazism, racism, sexism, etc in their purest form (not the bastardized versions) should be punished. We send terrorists to Guantonomo Bay, solitary confinement indefinitely for many of them. That's what would be done to those sorts of people. There aren't many people like it thankfully, but they deserve no platform to spread their idealogies and must be stopped at the source. 

Oh we're really gonna disagree on this. I'm against that because depending on who's the people in power or arbiter that could easily lead to a totalitarian state. it could be abused too easily. Also, "hate groups" will exist regardless of what you do. You can migate their overall influence by countering their arguments/moves with reason and logic. You're not trying to convince them that they are wrong but rather show to everyone how foolish their ideas are. That's fairly easy to do when there's alot of holes in their arguments. 

Allow anyone to speak openly and freely. That way it's much easier to track any persons of interest with troubling ideas versus them just remaining quiet and trying to change things behind the scenes.  Suppressing open speech doesn't stop the spreading of ideas because you can't watch everyone all the time. They'll still talk behind closed doors. If you try to control that, it will lead to authortarism and you won't stop what you were aiming for. The reason why a lot of hate groups have died off or weakened into insignificance is because people have been challenging their ideas for a long time. 

 

I don't think either of you understand that I know that it cannot be accomplished now. Unfortunately, it will only be accomplished by means of vastly superior intelligence which will come in the form of AI in the coming decades. 

Then again, they'll probably also realize humans are bad for the planet and continuation of other species and wipe us out anyway. So, perhaps it can't happen. But it doesn't take away from me not believing in free speech. It's too flawed. 


HomokHarcos said:
StarOcean said:

No. I do not believe in free speech. It allows for hate groups to exist. Any hate ideologies such as Nazism, racism, sexism, etc in their purest form (not the bastardized versions) should be punished. We send terrorists to Guantonomo Bay, solitary confinement indefinitely for many of them. That's what would be done to those sorts of people. There aren't many people like it thankfully, but they deserve no platform to spread their idealogies and must be stopped at the source. 

So because you think the idea is harmful you think people should be banned from making those statements? You know there's people who think video games in themselves are violent and harmful to society, and I doubt you would like to see them banned. In my opinion people should make effective arguments agaisnt ideologies they think is harmful, rather than just banning people from saying certain things.

Humans cant be trusted. Also I believe in a Big Brother sort of world anyway. Of course I only prefer it as part of the ruling class. So even banning isn't enough, really



Flilix said:
Errorist76 said:

No man, Hitler's ideology was way worse than Caesar's so don't try to equalise them.

Caesar claimed to have killed around 1 million Celts (most of them weren't even soldiers), which was a huge part of the Celtic population, so I don't see how Hitler was that much worse.

I'm sure he didn't let someone invent a gas-chamber to kill them though. Going to war against a populace of one certain region or just denying one whole lineage of man their right to live is still a big moral difference in my opinion. Not even talking about the difference in numbers.




The poll reminds me of Mr. Garrison fucking everyone to death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1xiAXMqJIQ



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Errorist76 said:

Free speech is important but I still believe to spread fascist ideas, hatred and lies should be judiciary punishable by the system. Excuse me, I'm German. I was raised to think that way.

 

Yes but here is the problem: Who decides what is lies and what is truth? Who decides what are fascist ideas, who decides what is racism?

The problem with censoring or worse, criminalizing an idea, an opinion is that it only allows for the idea that those in power defend or agree with, to be considered as the good one. It's pretty much what EVERY fascist or dictatorial society does. they say: ONLY agree with what WE THINK is right and you're ok, disagree or think differently and you are a criminal...

I don't believe censoring is the right approach, if you believe in something you need to express yourself and explain why you believe what you believe and others who disagree need to express themselves and explain why they disagree. People reading both sides will forge their own opinion, that is how free speech should work and ANY form of censorship is in itself fascism and an isult to any true concept of democracy.

I am a freethinker, I was not raised so, I became that of my free will.



StarOcean said:
HomokHarcos said:

So because you think the idea is harmful you think people should be banned from making those statements? You know there's people who think video games in themselves are violent and harmful to society, and I doubt you would like to see them banned. In my opinion people should make effective arguments agaisnt ideologies they think is harmful, rather than just banning people from saying certain things.

Humans cant be trusted. Also I believe in a Big Brother sort of world anyway. Of course I only prefer it as part of the ruling class. So even banning isn't enough, really

What a depressing view point of the world.  I've never seen someone suck on the nipples of big brother so much.  NSA should update your folder to blissfully compliant.



Errorist76 said:
Flilix said:

Caesar claimed to have killed around 1 million Celts (most of them weren't even soldiers), which was a huge part of the Celtic population, so I don't see how Hitler was that much worse.

I'm sure he didn't invent a maschinery to kill them though. Going to war against a populace of one certain region or just denying one whole lineage of man their right to live is still a big moral difference in my opinion. Not even talking about the difference in numbers.

He would definitely have killed more, if there were more people.

Also, he did in fact try to kill as many people as possible. Example:

Caesar reports that he burnt every village and building that he could find in the territory of the Eburones, drove off all the cattle, and his men and beasts consumed all the corn that the weather of the autumnal season did not destroy. He left those who had hid themselves, if there were any, with the hope that they would all die of hunger in the winter. Caesar says that he wanted to annihilate the Eburones and their name, and indeed we hear no more of the Eburones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eburones



StarOcean said:
HomokHarcos said:

So because you think the idea is harmful you think people should be banned from making those statements? You know there's people who think video games in themselves are violent and harmful to society, and I doubt you would like to see them banned. In my opinion people should make effective arguments agaisnt ideologies they think is harmful, rather than just banning people from saying certain things.

Humans cant be trusted. Also I believe in a Big Brother sort of world anyway. Of course I only prefer it as part of the ruling class. So even banning isn't enough, really

So let's say that all fascists are sent to camps to die (because you clearly stated before that you want them dead). How do we define a fascist? Let's just say someone wants to read about the history of fascism, should we send them to camps too?

I don't know if you realize your hypocrisy, as you stated that fascists are bad because they promote violence and hate, yet you are saying yourself that you want people to be severely punished and dead, are you really much different?



Errorist76 said:
Flilix said:

Caesar claimed to have killed around 1 million Celts (most of them weren't even soldiers), which was a huge part of the Celtic population, so I don't see how Hitler was that much worse.

I'm sure he didn't let someone invent a gas-chamber to kill them though. Going to war against a populace of one certain region or just denying one whole lineage of man their right to live is still a big moral difference in my opinion. Not even talking about the difference in numbers.


That is selective morals, you are saying that since Caesar did not have gas chambers, that raping children that were not even considered as humans cause they were slaves, watching people being mauled to death and then watching them being devoured alive, butchering and torturing people in villages as armies did during their invasions, all that stuff is not as bad just cause it was not a specific way of murdering such as using gas chambers?

That is morally so wrong on so many levels, my friend.