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Forums - Politics - Mass shooting Las Vegas

barneystinson69 said:

Americas problems lie with its gun culture, not the fact it has so many guns. Canada and Switzerland have just as many guns, but we don't see violent shootings at the likes. Quick thing, regulating guns won't do dick sadly in getting this issue fixed in America. Frankly, I just don't see a solution to this in the ending.

 

But its still early days in this investigation, so I hope some people don't try to fight about the political aspects of it so soon. Hopefully the death count won't go up, and I'm praying for those who have been affected by this piece of shit TERRORIST. 

That didn't seem correct to me, and it's not. We're have a fair amount of guns, but we're not even close to the U.S. It appears like a higher percentage of the guns in Canada are hunting rifles as well.

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/H-Research_Notes/SAS-Research-Note-9.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country



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Arminillo said:
Hiku said:


Anecdotal story. I overheard some kids talk about a mass shooting one time a few years ago, and one of them asked "where?", and the other one said "Guess?".
And everyone knew where it was. He didn't have to say any more.

That headline could be said for European countries and terrorism

Uh.. Europe is a continent. Terrorism happens everywhere in the world, all the time. 



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ArchangelMadzz said:
Arminillo said:

That headline could be said for European countries and terrorism

Uh.. Europe is a continent. Terrorism happens everywhere in the world, all the time. 

I believe that poorer countries get even more affected by it.



Hiku said:

So it appears these type of fully automatic rifles are legal in Nevada: http://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-gun-laws-open-carry-concealed-weapon-machine-guns-all-legal-nevada-675310

"Nevada law does not require firearms owners to have licenses or register their weapons, nor does it limit the number of firearms an individual posses. Automatic assault weapons and machine guns are also legal in the state as long as they are registered and possessed in adherence to federal law, according to the National Rifle Association."

Not sure what federal law they are refering to, but it may be possible that the killer got all those guns legally in Nevada.

There are multiple federal gun control laws that regulate ownership of these guns though. 

The first is the 1934 National Firearms Act which rdid the following

"All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain approval from the ATF, pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and fingerprints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax.[21] The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[22] There have been several unfavorable lawsuits where plaintiffs have been denied NFA approval for a transfer. These lawsuit include: Lomont v. O'Neill,[23] Westfall v. Miller,[24] and Steele v. National Branch.[25]"

Then in 1986, FOPA passed, which banned the sale of any newly manufactured automatic weapons to private individuals. Only fully automatic weapons before the passage of FOPA are allowed to be sold, which limited the supply of automatic weapons and boosted the price to the tens of thousands. 

Fewer than a million fully automatic weapons are owned legally in the United States. 



Hiku said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Our freedom to have guns is actually a self defense thing.

Which is very ironic considering how things turned out.

Well this is obviously antithetical to why we have gun freedoms.

But your response is out of context to what I was saying. We don't have gun freedoms for acts like this, the vast majority have guns for self defense.

Gun crimes are actually down even as ownership increases, but when something like this happens all the progress in a better direction is ignored.



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Hiku said:

Meanwhile republicans are pushing two bills to weaken US gun restrictions:
https://theslot.jezebel.com/in-wake-of-deadliest-mass-shooting-republicans-work-to-1819075688?utm_campaign=socialfow_jezebel_twitter&utm_source=jezebel_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

1.) A provision that weakens restrictions on obtaining gun silencers. Critics say this would make it harder to identify the source of the gunfire in a mass shooting.

“Imagine how much worse last night’s shooting could’ve been if the gunman had a silencer. Imagine the confusion for first responders if they arrived on the scene to a bunch of civilians wielding their own guns, attempting to return fire.”

2.) Allowing gun owners from concealed-carry states to bring their firearms into states that have tight restrictions on concealed weapons. If the bill passes, then someone who carries a gun in Nevada—which does not require a permit for carrying a concealed weapon—would be able to bring that weapon to California or New York without applying for a permit or undergoing a background check, as required by state law.

1.) Suppressors do not make a gun silent. The provision is for hearing protection for shooters. An unsuppresed gun without wearing ear protection can be above 150 decibels. With ear protection this will bring it down to 90-110 decibels. Damage to the human ear happens at about 80+ decibels. With suppressors and ear protection the sound from the gun would be about 50 decibels, without protection it would still be very loud (around 100 decibels.) The number of documented gun crimes involving suppresors is nearly zero.  

2.) I don't know the specifics of this proposal. If it does what it says, then that is wrong. If it allows people do drive through the state though (many states will arrest people moving their guns as they travel through), but doesn't allow somebody to conceal carry within the jurisdiction where it is illegal, then I think that is fair. 

#1 definitely should pass though, it improves the safety of using guns. 



Mr Puggsly said:

BraLoD said:

Guns are designed purely to take away others freedom. Guns purpose is to give the onwer killing power over others, that's the opposite of freedom.  

Our freedom to have guns is actually a self defense thing.

And this is what people find so insane, it's sick paranoia; if someone around here believed stuff like that, I think everyone in the community would want them locked up in an insanity ward. But it's such a common and accepted belief in the US that one has to wonder if it's like some kind of communicable mental disease. It's akin to North Korea and their irrational belief systems. Like a cultural illness.

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Mr Puggsly said:
Hiku said:

Which is very ironic considering how things turned out.

Well this is obviously antithetical to why we have gun freedoms.

But your response is out of context to what I was saying. We don't have gun freedoms for acts like this, the vast majority have guns for self defense.

Gun crimes are actually down even as ownership increases, but when something like this happens all the progress in a better direction is ignored.

In the US, percent of gun-owning households has actually been dropping since the 70's alongside the fall in violent crimes, so the bold isn't exactly true. 



Hiku said:
sc94597 said:

There are multiple federal gun control laws that regulate ownership of these guns though. 

The first is the 1934 National Firearms Act which rdid the following

"All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain approval from the ATF, pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and fingerprints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax.[21] The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[22] There have been several unfavorable lawsuits where plaintiffs have been denied NFA approval for a transfer. These lawsuit include: Lomont v. O'Neill,[23] Westfall v. Miller,[24] and Steele v. National Branch.[25]"

Then in 1986, FOPA passed, which banned the sale of any newly manufactured automatic weapons to private individuals. Only fully automatic weapons before the passage of FOPA are allowed to be sold, which limited the supply of automatic weapons and boosted the price to the tens of thousands. 

Fewer than a million fully automatic weapons are owned legally in the United States. 

That second law in particular makes it more doubtful that he got these legally then.

The guy was a millionaire. He did purchase them legally according to news reports. They've been interviewing the vendor, he passed all background checks.



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Jumpin said:
Hiku said:

That second law in particular makes it more doubtful that he got these legally then.

The guy was a millionaire. He did purchase them legally according to news reports. They've been interviewing the vendor, he passed all background checks.

Last I heard, neither of the vendors who claimed to have sold him guns sold him anything fully auto, and it is unknown if any of those weapons were used in the shooting.