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Forums - Politics - Mass shooting Las Vegas

irstupid said:

May I ask what laws would have prevented this from happening?

What on record was wrong with this guy beyond I hear some form of Autism? Should all Autistic people be banned from guns? What about terrorist list? Did you know that some congressmen were on teh terrorist list. I'm all for a good ban list of people, but I'm not sure I trust how and who gets put on that list.

For instance, did you know that in 13 states you get put on the sex offender list for peeing in public. Lets say we prevent all sex offenders from owning a gun. That makes sense and seems common sense when said aloud right? Yet my first sentence shows that something as innocent as someone peeing outside could put them on the list.

You are kind of asking an impossible question. To my knowledge, we have no idea where the guns came from, so how are we supposed to say how to block those channels?



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CosmicSex said:

Oh, well first we need somthing to weed out insane people from owning a firearm.  Like that is top priority. 

Next if this guy was able to get military  grade weapons, then the supplier should be charged with treason and we need to get them off the streets.  I'm In the city, cash rewards were used to turn over illegal guns no questions asked.

Third, and this goes without saying but high traffic areas need to have systems in place to detect guns.  People need to be able to go to concerts with worried about crazy people with itchy fingers.

Gun ownership like driver license ownership should be considered a privilege not a right and safety must be put first.  Let sellers know that if they sell someone a gun and then they kill someone and you didn't check their background, you also broke the law.  I can sell you are car as a dealer if you aren't licenced.

 

Andwhats wrong with classes to teach people gun safety and making it required as an owner?

 

Oh and I am all for search and seizure of illegal weapons.

I think most supporters of gun ownership would agree with "we need something to weed out insane people from owning a firearm" in so much as it respects: 

1. People's rights to due-process. 

2. The rights of people who don't have severe mental illnesses but who might need therapy for mild mental illnesses, or social/personality disorders from owning guns. 

"Next if this guy was able to get military  grade weapons, then the supplier should be charged with treason and we need to get them off the streets.  I'm In the city, cash rewards were used to turn over illegal guns no questions asked."

Who are you talking about when you say "supplier"? You mean the person who illegal obtained the gun and provided to this guy? Or who manufacturered a modifier that allowed this guy to modify an existing gun and make it fully automatic, then if you can find him people would say he should be arrested. Most people who support gun rights would support an endeavor in so much as it doesn't harm people's fourth amendment protections (in other words, no search or seizure without warrants.) 

"
Third, and this goes without saying but high traffic areas need to have systems in place to detect guns.  People need to be able to go to concerts with worried about crazy people with itchy fingers."

I suppose in those places that don't allow conceal carry this could work. If the people in those cities want to spend the money to create such a system, that is their choice I guess. Doesn't sound like something which would work on a national level when some states and cities allow open carry. 

"
Gun ownership like driver license ownership should be considered a privilege not a right and safety must be put first."

This is where you are going to lose gun owners and supporters of gun rights, and it would kill any bill you want to get passed. 

"  Let sellers know that if they sell someone a gun and then they kill someone and you didn't check their background, you also broke the law.  I can sell you are car as a dealer if you aren't licenced."

Is this not already the law for FFL dealers and straw purchasers? 

"Andwhats wrong with classes to teach people gun safety and making it required as an owner?"

It is kind of irrelevant to the topic of mass-shootings, and should have its own debate and own legislation. Some things wrong with it, is that it is a prohibitive obstacle to the poor in much the same way the poll tax and voting tests were. Many of these poor already know the safety rules of firearms ownership through diffusion from gun-safety classes. 

"
Oh and I am all for search and seizure of illegal weapons."

By this you mean legal search and seizure? Otherwise you don't see any problems with the violations of the fourth amendment protections one has? Even if you don't mind it being used for illegal guns only, most police would use this as another pretense to violate fourth amendment rights whenver they want. 



This is devastating news, truly heartbreaking stuff.. Usually when I go to Vegas I end up staying at Hooters Resort which is like 2 blocks away from there. In fact I was just there in March. I don't think I'll ever look at that area the same again if I go back.

The thing that's the most frustrating to me is that there is STILL no sort of motive or connection to a larger, systematic operation with this psychopath, and very little background on him. Who the fuck just goes off and guns down hundreds of people on a whim? And like, how does he end up getting what's apparently a fully automatic rifle, which ARE in fact illegal here in the US and have been for decades (and even supposedly very hard to obtain even illegally)? He apparently also had a whole bunch of heavy-duty weaponry in his room, and cameras in the hallways to inform him when law enforcement was close. This whole thing was completely pre-meditated and preplanned. Question is, WHY? And HOW? I don't believe for a second this guy acted totally alone.

And what of his female friend, apparently of Malaysian or Indonesian decent? There was also some girl who shouted "you're all going to die" 45 minutes before this shooting took place, who was described as looking Hispanic. Like what the fuck? This is a pretty MAJOR tidbit that needs to be looked into more. And if you look at her pictures she could certainly pass for Hispanic. Wouldn't it be fair to assume that was her? But law enforcement was talking about questioning her, then just dropped the whole thing like that. And supposedly her credit card or something was found in his room. I don't know, I feel there's more going on here.. I dunno, my thoughts are just a clusterfuck, I'm still just shocked.

Hits close to home because I've spent many a night there in that south LV strip area during my vacations.



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

barneystinson69 said:

Americas problems lie with its gun culture, not the fact it has so many guns. Canada and Switzerland have just as many guns, but we don't see violent shootings at the likes. Quick thing, regulating guns won't do dick sadly in getting this issue fixed in America. Frankly, I just don't see a solution to this in the ending.

 

But its still early days in this investigation, so I hope some people don't try to fight about the political aspects of it so soon. Hopefully the death count won't go up, and I'm praying for those who have been affected by this piece of shit TERRORIST. 

Canada doesn't have any where near the same amount of guns. 



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

ArchangelMadzz said:
barneystinson69 said:

Americas problems lie with its gun culture, not the fact it has so many guns. Canada and Switzerland have just as many guns, but we don't see violent shootings at the likes. Quick thing, regulating guns won't do dick sadly in getting this issue fixed in America. Frankly, I just don't see a solution to this in the ending.

 

But its still early days in this investigation, so I hope some people don't try to fight about the political aspects of it so soon. Hopefully the death count won't go up, and I'm praying for those who have been affected by this piece of shit TERRORIST. 

Canada doesn't have any where near the same amount of guns. 

It is important to remember that the distribution of guns vary wildly based on state. 




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sundin13 said:
irstupid said:

May I ask what laws would have prevented this from happening?

What on record was wrong with this guy beyond I hear some form of Autism? Should all Autistic people be banned from guns? What about terrorist list? Did you know that some congressmen were on teh terrorist list. I'm all for a good ban list of people, but I'm not sure I trust how and who gets put on that list.

For instance, did you know that in 13 states you get put on the sex offender list for peeing in public. Lets say we prevent all sex offenders from owning a gun. That makes sense and seems common sense when said aloud right? Yet my first sentence shows that something as innocent as someone peeing outside could put them on the list.

You are kind of asking an impossible question. To my knowledge, we have no idea where the guns came from, so how are we supposed to say how to block those channels?

Doesn't matter how he obtained the guns.

1. If they are legal and he obtained them legally, then refer back to my post. How do we prevent this mentally disturbed individual from acquiring these legal firearms without preventing perfectly capable people from acquiring the same firearms.

2. If they were obtained illegally, then what woudl any further gun restrictions do? He clearly obtained them illegally and would have done so still with further laws in system.

To me the firearms debate is like the cop debate. There are millions of legal gun owners in the U.S. and a fraction of a fraction of them commit murder. Like .0001% or somethign insanely small. Cops, there are millions of cops and there are some bad ones, just like gun owners. But do we hate on all cops cause 1 out of a million is some racists murderer? I'd like to think no. But it sure seems like right now people want to hold every cop in the world accountable for one random cop somewheres actions.



Puppyroach said:
irstupid said:

Yea I heard on radio this morning an interiew with some securty guard and he mentioned seeing people trampled, ect. So yea the 400 injured or whatever is not purely by bullets.

But gun laws is just a bandaid to the problem. The real problem is terrorism, mentally troubled, racists, far-right/left political, ect. You need to fix those or else mass murders will always happen.

Hell, the guy could have been throwing molatav coktails from his window and done massive damage, and we can all agree that aquiring the resources for thso woudl be insanely easy anywhere, let alone vegas. Would anyone in a hotel bat an eye seeing someone taking say 50 bottles of liquor to his room. No, especially in vegas.

But the guy didn't have molotov cocktails now did he? He had 10 rifles, why? Because they are easily accesible and have a specific purpose. Remove those and he would have to go to greater lengths to do what he did.

Yes, buy them illegaly. So much harder. 



ArchangelMadzz said:
barneystinson69 said:

Americas problems lie with its gun culture, not the fact it has so many guns. Canada and Switzerland have just as many guns, but we don't see violent shootings at the likes. Quick thing, regulating guns won't do dick sadly in getting this issue fixed in America. Frankly, I just don't see a solution to this in the ending.

 

But its still early days in this investigation, so I hope some people don't try to fight about the political aspects of it so soon. Hopefully the death count won't go up, and I'm praying for those who have been affected by this piece of shit TERRORIST. 

Canada doesn't have any where near the same amount of guns. 

I mean't per capita. Seemingly forgot to include that in my description.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

sc94597 said:
CosmicSex said:

Oh, well first we need somthing to weed out insane people from owning a firearm.  Like that is top priority. 

Next if this guy was able to get military  grade weapons, then the supplier should be charged with treason and we need to get them off the streets.  I'm In the city, cash rewards were used to turn over illegal guns no questions asked.

Third, and this goes without saying but high traffic areas need to have systems in place to detect guns.  People need to be able to go to concerts with worried about crazy people with itchy fingers.

Gun ownership like driver license ownership should be considered a privilege not a right and safety must be put first.  Let sellers know that if they sell someone a gun and then they kill someone and you didn't check their background, you also broke the law.  I can sell you are car as a dealer if you aren't licenced.

 

Andwhats wrong with classes to teach people gun safety and making it required as an owner?

 

Oh and I am all for search and seizure of illegal weapons.

I think most supporters of gun ownership would agree with "we need something to weed out insane people from owning a firearm" in so much as it respects: 

1. People's rights to due-process. 

2. The rights of people who don't have severe mental illnesses but who might need therapy for mild mental illnesses, or social/personality disorders from owning guns. 

"Next if this guy was able to get military  grade weapons, then the supplier should be charged with treason and we need to get them off the streets.  I'm In the city, cash rewards were used to turn over illegal guns no questions asked."

Who are you talking about when you say "supplier"? You mean the person who illegal obtained the gun and provided to this guy? Or who manufacturered a modifier that allowed this guy to modify an existing gun and make it fully automatic, then if you can find him people would say he should be arrested. Most people who support gun rights would support an endeavor in so much as it doesn't harm people's fourth amendment protections (in other words, no search or seizure without warrants.) 

"
Third, and this goes without saying but high traffic areas need to have systems in place to detect guns.  People need to be able to go to concerts with worried about crazy people with itchy fingers."

I suppose in those places that don't allow conceal carry this could work. If the people in those cities want to spend the money to create such a system, that is their choice I guess. Doesn't sound like something which would work on a national level when some states and cities allow open carry. 

"
Gun ownership like driver license ownership should be considered a privilege not a right and safety must be put first."

This is where you are going to lose gun owners and supporters of gun rights, and it would kill any bill you want to get passed. 

"  Let sellers know that if they sell someone a gun and then they kill someone and you didn't check their background, you also broke the law.  I can sell you are car as a dealer if you aren't licenced."

Is this not already the law for FFL dealers and straw purchasers? 

"Andwhats wrong with classes to teach people gun safety and making it required as an owner?"

It is kind of irrelevant to the topic of mass-shootings, and should have its own debate and own legislation. Some things wrong with it, is that it is a prohibitive obstacle to the poor in much the same way the poll tax and voting tests were. Many of these poor already know the safety rules of firearms ownership through diffusion from gun-safety classes. 

"
Oh and I am all for search and seizure of illegal weapons."

By this you mean legal search and seizure? Otherwise you don't see any problems with the violations of the fourth amendment protections one has? Even if you don't mind it being used for illegal guns only, most police would use this as another pretense to violate fourth amendment rights whenver they want. 

I will just address the first point in reference to weeding out mentaly ill.....How exactly do you know when someoen is mentally ill? What if they have been purcghasing firearms for years legally and were upstanding citizens, much like the person who just commited this act? Then something sets them off and they go on a killing spree? The only thing a phsyc test will get you is a person who has issues at the time cant purchase a new one. It does nothing about them owning one before hand. 



Here is your reason why guns and any restrictions will never form in the US
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/gun-stocks-rise-after-las-vegas-shooting/article36457157/

This will get Trump reelected and they we can have him remove all gun restrictions so we can go back to the good old Wild West.