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Forums - Politics Discussion - *Disrespecting the flag* Trump's speech + Rules.

Ka-pi96 said:
Why are Americans so obsessed with their flag? Who gives a shit if people want to kneel down, or piss on it, or burn it or whatever else. It's just a piece of cloth with some colours on.

I think it's kind of funny to see such a huge discussion about something so trivial. I do believe that the patriotism we see in the US is just a cultural imposition to make the American people more easy to manipulate.

Just think about the Iraq wars. A lot of mothers of deceased soldiers are proud of what their sons did. But what exactly they did? For what they died for? Saddam, while a blooody dictator, wasn't a threat to the US. Actually, removing him allowed ISIS to fill the void so we could say that Americans actually created a threat by themselves.

The reality is that the Emirates, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are important US allies. And they used their influence to make the US government remove their political enemies from power (Assad is the last). So all these soldiers died only to give more money and power to sheiks and monarchs, while US representatives filled their pocket with their money and the country as a whole got a somewhat better geopolitical influence in the region.

For me, the American patriotism is fabricated through the education system and media, in order to keep the people obedient and willing to die (or tolerate seeing other Americans die) in wars that are not meant to bring benefits to the people.

It's nice to love your country, but this feeling can't be blind. And this addoration of a piece of colored fabric is part of this massive brainwash. I understand that people actually don't love the flag itself, but the concept of the nation behind the symbol. But that's a dangerous thing because the real nation may be different from the concept they sell to their own people. The latter is why I agree with the manifestations. If the the concept behind the flag is being disrespected due to social and racial segregation, it loses its value. I'm not saying that what the NFL guys are doing is incredible, but it should at least make people think a bit about the discrepance between what the flag represents and the reality. Anyway, most reactions have being knee-jerk at best.



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vivster said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

What?

You said there are more important things than people kneeling to a song. So I asked if you know something about the very few things that could be more important than that. For example lying down to a song or, god forbid, making a hand stand to a song.

Solving world hunger, curing cancer... there's a few.



AlfredoTurkey said:
vivster said:

You said there are more important things than people kneeling to a song. So I asked if you know something about the very few things that could be more important than that. For example lying down to a song or, god forbid, making a hand stand to a song.

Solving world hunger, curing cancer... there's a few.

I'm pretty sure other people are already taking care of those things. So that we concentrate on other important things like body posture during songs.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

Solving world hunger, curing cancer... there's a few.

I'm pretty sure other people are already taking care of those things. So that we concentrate on other important things like body posture during songs.

No one ever claimed that intelligence was a wide spread phenomenon.



vivster said:
Isn't this kind of nationalism of "respecting the flag" and "respecting the leader" more akin to a dictatorship than a real democracy? Looks like the US is even importing their nationalism from Asia.

Right, it reminds me of China wanting to give citizens a score for how loyal they are to the government.



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XD Americans literally put their flag on anything they can don't they? Any who you would think Trump should have more important things to do than caring about the fucking flag. Just don't burn it because fire safety and environment. But if you want to take a leak on a flag or wipe your assistance with it be my guest.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

VGPolyglot said:
Leadified said:

Flags are symbols which can represent things like a certain ideology, culture/political values, etc. People don't burn flags just because, they do it to send a message.

I didn't say it didn't represent anything, I'm saying that it doesn't hurt anyone.

Neither does burning a cross in someones front yard.



Harkins1721 said:
monocle_layton said:

Guess what? Not everyone does. I don't need a flag or some anthem to help fellow Americans. People should be allowed to disagree and kneel without having the president of all people calling them sons of bitches

 

Maybe Trump should get his head out of his ass and care about issues besides sports. For fuck's sake, when did Obama devote his time whining about conservatives or players who despise him?

Yeah congratz. I have no issue with people sitting or standing. I dont need more politics for the things I watch. Everyday and everywhere now its ridiculous. Trump needs to focus on the US and football players focus on football. Dont attack one person and not the other. 

That is the whole point of a protest.  It makes you who is comfortable uncomfortable.  If a protest made you comfortable then it did not do its job.  

As for Trump, he probably did the NFL a favor.  While he may be pandering to his base, he has unified the NFL on this whole topic.  He turned a small protest that probably would have lost steam in a year to being a national event by giving it more press. Should be interesting how this develop.



Machiavellian said:
Harkins1721 said:

Yeah congratz. I have no issue with people sitting or standing. I dont need more politics for the things I watch. Everyday and everywhere now its ridiculous. Trump needs to focus on the US and football players focus on football. Dont attack one person and not the other. 

That is the whole point of a protest.  It makes you who is comfortable uncomfortable.  If a protest made you comfortable then it did not do its job.  

As for Trump, he probably did the NFL a favor.  While he may be pandering to his base, he has unified the NFL on this whole topic.  He turned a small protest that probably would have lost steam in a year to being a national event by giving it more press. Should be interesting how this develop.

Don't be surprised if it hurts the NFL. I was busy yesterday and thus watched my home teams game, missing the kickoff, and tunred it off the second it was over. Thus I didn't really know anything about this protesting. They mentioned durign the game, some solidarity across the league during the anthem and showed a clip of players holding arms. Didn't think nothing of it, and couldn't tell from that 5 second clip whether it was in support of flag or not.

I come into work today and like 5 people come up to me, unapproached, to see what I thought of it. Since I didn't really know anything, I listened mostly and not one person was in support of the players. Scrolling through my facebook feed today, for every person supporting it there are 10 people hating on it. FYI, the ones in support of it are not the football fans.

NFL has been struggling in their numbers and I dont' see this helping.

My advice to any professional athlete on the issue is something Michael Jordan once said. "republicans buy shoes too" Jordan is smart and not pissing off half his potential consumers. The athletes should be smart and do the same. Heck, I've had people not pick people in fantasy football because they are a kneeler/protester.



Threads like this make me hate both sides.