I genuinely do not know what you want from me. I accepted your challenge to my perspective this whole thread. I've painstakingly elaborated on every point that you questioned. You have not done the same in most of your responses. Contrary to what you suggested, I didn't repeat or reword a single idea unless it was to directly and deliborately revisit a point you failed to take into account in your own response. Every paragraph I've written tackled a unique idea without becoming redundant. None of it was a longer variation or a previous point.

I'm literally responding with my complete and unrelenting respect, even in the face of your blatant disrespect and dissent in response. MTZehvor made a great response with regards to how story was done in Prime, and I conceded because he was right. If I can't understand where you're coming from, it's because you haven't done as good a job as he did in comminicating your point and actually backing it up well. I'm not an impenatrable wall. We disagree, but you don't have to be a blatant condescending jerk about it. 

Can you use links? None of the videos work for me.

I just want to clarify that when I said that I'm a musician, that was only to emphasis that I know what I'm talking about when I say that SR's soundtrack is not like Prime's. Like it structurally has very little in common with Prime's. I wasn't trying to say "I'm a musician, there for my opinion on the quality of this music is superior to yours."

I don't think that much of M2's soundrack is good, specifically the "Deeper" parts, which is what I assume you're talking about. I can understand what you mean when you say it's a mess, if that is what you're talking about, but SR is a "mess" in a very different way. M2 can be atonal. That's what i meant by "in a way that not even M2 ever sounded." SR is just like too many sounds all at once. It's not simple or deliberate. It's overfilled with embellishments and accoutrements. It sounds busy. You know when someone says that a shirt is too "loud?" That's what a lot of SR's soundtrack sounds like. Not melody, counter-melody, percussion, bassline, and that's it like how most music in most metroid games have been done. There's just a lot going on. A lot of effects too, especially reverberation.

The easiest way for me to tell is that much of the original music isn't easily hummable in SR, because there isn't that strong sense of melody/counter/bass. And even when its there, again it's often times obfuscated by all the extra embelishments. You compare how Samus Returns handles it's soundtract to something like Galaxy, and the difference is night and day. Galaxy's soundtrack is far more clear and deliberate because the composer never let's the orchestra run away from him. Every track in that game could be easily translated to a very pleasing, nearly identical 8-bit tune in a way that many of the tracks in SR could not.

I don't like options like this. Not only did I hit the button on accident multiple times, but the bigger issue is that if the option is there and has great utility, it shouldn't be up to the player to decide between having a more meaningful experience or playing the game in the most efficient way possible. Especially because abilities like these offer short term while potentially having a detremental effect on the long term experience. Also, the game is designed around the expectation that players will likely use them. Some enemies only die with the machine gun attack. Some areas hurt Samus unless she uses a sheild. Some hidden areas are far more obtuse to get to than they ever have been before, likely because they know that if a player gets too frustrated, they can always just scan the area. Slow mo... I mean you can avoid some obstacles and run across others. "Optional" needs to be accompanied by big quotes in this case. The game was designed to be most enjoyable when using these abilities.

SR is completely different from Super. It is more different from Super in nearly every way outside of being a different franchise or Other M. If Super is Samus, than SR is the SA-X. Unless you meant that it's NOT following the trend set by Super. In which case... Kind of. It's more complicated than that, but essentially SR feels like it's ashamed to be a metroid game. Like everyday people can't appreciate what makes metroid good, so those things should be abandoned in favor of something shallow that can still make people say that they get it. The thing I hate most about SR is that it worked. I can respect anyone who likes the things in ZM or Fusion that I don't like. I can respect anyone who likes prime better than Super. But it's very difficult for me to respect someone who thinks that Super and SR are comparable even if they think Super is better, because it makes me feel like they literally do not have any understanding of what made that game special. If they did, SR would infuruate them, because it is the antithesis of what that game, and ZM, and Fusion do.

If someone said "I like SR better than Super/ZM/Fusion because of all of the things Spem doesn't like about it. I can see all those differences clearly and I prefer them. I like puzzles, so i don't see them as interuptions. I don't like the naturalistic worlds of prior metroids. I'd prefer a systemic one like in SR. I like exploring in theory, but I don't want to get lost so i don't mind the gating, the fast travel, etc. I like QTEs, so i don't mind the counter system. I like how cinematic the cutscenes are, and if they weren't there, I probably wouldn't pay attention to the environment. I see the Sectors as levels more than a real place, which i don't mind because it's more of a playground for fun obstacles than a living alien planet. Etc etc," I would actually respect that more, because at least they see what I've always seen and are just acknowledging a preference. They see everything in Super/ZM/Fusion and say "yeah, I prefer the very different SR." But seeing so many people like SM because its like those older games, and even seeing many of the responses here feels like people literally thought that this was always what Metroid was, and that I'm seeing something that was never there. Which is insane to me, and very very disheartening, because I genuinely think Super is the most well designed game I've ever played. Likely the most well designed game ever made. I thought that people who liked Super not just felt the same, but more importantly had an intimate understanding as to why, but many of those people are saying that SR is a return to form when it is clearly a bastardization. Or to be actually fair and not emotional, a gross oversimplification of very surface level, first sight, generalizations of Metroid.

I actually felt this way about Sonic Rush as a bringer of bad, and it took Sega 12 years to release another sonic game, 2D or otherwise, that was actually good after that, and only because people started hating the 2D games slowly after that until it eventually resulted in Mania, a sonic game made my fans. I'm actually looking more forward to Metroid Prime 4 than Metroid 5, which to anyone who has read my Super in Metroid series should know, is fucking crazy talk. I would rather play what my worse fear of what Prime 4 is than what my best realistic hope for what Metroid 5 now is. That's how much SR crushes me. Even with OM and FF, I can at least say that they're spin offs. My literal only hope for 2D metroid at this point is for Nintendo to do the same in 12 years, for people to slowly resent this change in direction until a decade of criticism results in Sakamoto giving his baby so someone who isn't ashamed of Metroid, because playing more games like this in the meantime, especially the inevitable horror that will be a post-SR Super Metroid remake, will be too painful to stick around for. I will likely have to stick to fan games and look alikes until that happens. And a lot of writing, because I will not let SR survive without a real dissenting argument of consequence to accompany it. I'm going to Dark Souls II the hell out of this game so I can at least make my peace with this franchise that I love so much and know that I did something.

What's next for 2D Metroid? Nothing good that I can forsee. Not if this is the omen.

I'll read your response, but I'm done with this thread. Thank you to everyone for listening and debating with me.

It's okay. I have been very negative with this game, because this game really, really scares me. I will likely never be more negative with any other game than this one because of how much I like this game's predecessors compared to the implications that this game's inevitable success will have on the future of this franchise. I do understand how unpleasant that negativity can be though. I do want to make it clear that I neither think SR is bad, nor can I say that there weren't moments where I didn't enjoy it. I just feel very strongly about this not being the benchmark for future games in a series like this. I think people are so happy that we didn't get Other M 2 that they don't care anymore, or never noticed the difference, and that has caused me great distress since finishing after the reviews and response raised my hopes before playing initially. I went in blind.

I know I said the other post would be my last, but as you clearly chose to be the bigger person here, i thought it warrented a response. I'll read yours if you have one, but this really is my last post here.

How would you rank the series? I know that ranking can be arbitrary but as someone who's only played Prime 1 i'm curious

Reading the last pages anyone would think the game has been very divisive. Meanwhile 95% of critics and players think this game its awesome.

I didn't completely read the post and admittedly I'm not far into SR but pretty much all of the music I remember is just remixed music from Metroid II.

I've played mostly at work with the volume lower than normal so I don't disturb my partner. Didn't realize that until just now. I can't hear shit! I shouldn't have commented on the first place.

Well yes, because Metroidvania games, more than any other kind of games, are dependant on environmental atmosphere to set the mood. I just don't get that with Samus Returns. 

Actually i think the game is going to sell a lot better than Nintendo hopes especially after Federation Force besides what makes you think this game will underperform? It was mentioned during 2 Directs i think and had multiple videos uploaded by Nintendo's youtube channel and the Eshop is promoting it on front ever since release and the game sold better at the Japanese market just below Other M. 

I don't really get this line, so you acknowledge that SR is a proper Metroid game yet it's shallow and you'd rather play Prime? because SR being a remake of the most linear Metroid game does make it have a huge handicap compared to other games like Super and Prime. I love it but i realise that it's linear and repetitive just like the original.

I disagree.

360 aiming - is what really improves the gameplay and should have been implemented a long time ago. Yes, you can't walk but it gives you much more precision whereas back in Super Metroid you can only aim diagonally or vertically where you'd have to jump or duck if you wanted to shoot at the right spot or enemy which can be really tedious.

The melee attack - while i agree that the enemies charge too much it's never forced not even on boss fights and it only makes it better when enemies are too close to shoot down.

scan pulse - some people don't like this because it gives away where hidden items and powerups lie, i agree to some extend but it doesn't give everthing away and after all it doesn't tell you HOW to get to these powerups just a hint that you missed something.

transport stations - i know this is not a first but it's been very well implemented in this game because the original made you run ALL THE WAY BACK to a previously explored area and without a map at that.

aeon abilities - optional goodies there are some moments when you really need them but they're mostly optional and i actually like them.

These are all evolutions i would like to see return to future Metroid games that prevent the gameplay from getting stale.

I disagree with the first part. The walljumping does get some getting used to but it works and you have a 4 bomb limit that recharges pretty fast but it's still not infinite unlike in AM2R.

agree with the last part.

Disagreed.

Yeah it takes away most of the health but you can still keep shooting beams or missiles while the animation is playing and it's not forced at anytime to me it definitely spices up the combat instead of just button mashed shooting and running.

I think this is the problem most old school Metroid fans have, they don't really want the series to "evolve" they just want the same Super Metroid over and over again. Same goes for the Prime fans.

Agreed.

I think SR did a great job of showing and not telling or scanning with cutscenes and they were all skippable. Not a single piece of scanning and reading and i skip them after viewing them the second time.

It's not that people don't want to scan it's that if you're going to tell a story by scanning everything then you basically need to force the player to stop, scan everything and tell them everything what's happened or happening by text. It dumbs down the experience because not everybody wants to stop and read they just want to continue playing. I scanned everything in Prime because i was interested in reading about the enemies, bosses and powerups but reading about the lore and the story behind them actually made it boring, why not just show it?

I think this was the main reason Prime 3 went for a more cinematic, voice acting approach and dumbed down the scanning logs.

Agreed.

Worse than Federation Force? I assume you would have preffered 2D sprites because SR's art come pretty close to the 3D Metroid games just in a terrible resolution.

Looks close to Metroid Prime in 2.5D and the sense of depth is amazing, is pretty atmospheric even if the artstyle isn't stellar, it also looks way better on a 3.5" screen than on big screenshots for obvious reasons.