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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Article: Nintendo Has Won 2017

Veknoid_Outcast said:
The problem with these threads is that the Nintendo fans don't explore the PlayStation library and the PS fans can't be bothered to experiment with everything Nintendo has to offer. So you just get folks voting along party lines.

Basically this. Also, who "wins" a year is highly dependent on personal preferences so even for a guy who plays both Sony and Nintendo games, there's no definite answer.

A better article/thread would have been "Nintendo is having a very good year 2017" with a list of they've done so far and what's to come.



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Slarvax said:
Imagine if Sony released Uncharted 4, The Last of Us, Crash N. Sane Trilogy, Horizon, Bloodborne and some other high quality ports/exclusives in the first year of the PS4? Really good lineup, one of the bests ever you would say.
That's why Nintendo fans are so optimistic and (unfortunately) cocky.

But anyway, both Sony and Nintendo are winning. Even we are winning. No reason for childish fights.

I would not call Nintendo fans "cocky". They are simply being honest, which in some cases may be confused with arrogance but only by those in denial.

caffeinade said:
abroZ said:

What red Pro controller?! 

0.0 That looks so sexy!



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potato_hamster said:

The hilarious thing is that I'm just as "accredited" if not more so as many of the people who are paid to review video games. Take Colin Moriarty for example. Former Senior Editor at IGN has an American History degree from Northwestern. He got his job at IGN because one of the senior editors there took a liking to his lengthy walthroughs for RPGs. He is directly responsible for hundreds of review scores used on metacritic's aggregator.  Jim Sterling doesn't seem to have any university education of any kind, yet here he is on metacritic as well, fucking with Breath of the Wild's metacritic score.

But where are you getting this nonsense about "getting accredited". This accrediation process you demand I meet doesn't appear to exist from what I can find. Metacritic chooses which review sites to include, the reviewers don't apply.

But you are making unfounded claims. You're passing off what amounts to the aggregation of peoples opinions as objective when it clearly isn't. There mere fact that you think it's reasonable to use a logical fallacy to support your argument, is telling. You can only consider it a valid inductive argument if everyone agrees that these people's opinions matter more than everyone elses. Woops. Looks like I just blew holes in that, didn't I?

You're equating "Video game review sites in general review this game higher than this other game" as "this game is objectively better than this other game". The two are not the same.

Uh? But that goes in circles? If there is no way to determine a common tendency, a tangent, because you reject the basics of the arguments I made, although they are accepted by a majority, I can't really debate on that. I'm sorry you have so little faith in the review system. 

And btw, fuck no. I didn't say it was pure objectivity. I said aggregation are able to weed out some of the poorest reviews in terms of quality and argumentativity. There isn't any fallacy about that. Critics are not the only way to try and establish objectivity, they are a part of it.



guiduc said:
potato_hamster said:

The hilarious thing is that I'm just as "accredited" if not more so as many of the people who are paid to review video games. Take Colin Moriarty for example. Former Senior Editor at IGN has an American History degree from Northwestern. He got his job at IGN because one of the senior editors there took a liking to his lengthy walthroughs for RPGs. He is directly responsible for hundreds of review scores used on metacritic's aggregator.  Jim Sterling doesn't seem to have any university education of any kind, yet here he is on metacritic as well, fucking with Breath of the Wild's metacritic score.

But where are you getting this nonsense about "getting accredited". This accrediation process you demand I meet doesn't appear to exist from what I can find. Metacritic chooses which review sites to include, the reviewers don't apply.

But you are making unfounded claims. You're passing off what amounts to the aggregation of peoples opinions as objective when it clearly isn't. There mere fact that you think it's reasonable to use a logical fallacy to support your argument, is telling. You can only consider it a valid inductive argument if everyone agrees that these people's opinions matter more than everyone elses. Woops. Looks like I just blew holes in that, didn't I?

You're equating "Video game review sites in general review this game higher than this other game" as "this game is objectively better than this other game". The two are not the same.

Uh? But that goes in circles? If there is no way to determine a common tendency, a tangent, because you reject the basics of the arguments I made, although they are accepted by a majority, I can't really debate on that. I'm sorry you have so little faith in the review system. 

And btw, fuck no. I didn't say it was pure objectivity. I said aggregation are able to weed out some of the poorest reviews in terms of quality and argumentativity. There isn't any fallacy about that. Critics are not the only way to try and establish objectivity, they are a part of it.


It's not that I have little faith in the review system, I just understand what it is. It's mostly composed people like you and me that are decent writers and decided to play and review games for a living. That's it. As a result, I use reviews as an indicator of whether or not I will like a game, not to determine whether one game is objectively better than another. You can't remove the subjectivity out of personal preference, and I don't pretend that it can be mitigated enough to be reasonably objective.

Now you're acting like Metacritic is some kind of authority? From their FAQ

"Why don't you include my publication in your panel?

We are always on the lookout for new sources of quality, well-written reviews that are well regarded in the industry or among their peers. Several times throughout the year, we will re-evaulate our current group of publications and make additions and deletions to our panel if necessary. If you feel that your publication deserves inclusion among this elite group, please let us know. Remember, we are only looking for high-quality websites (or print publications).

Can you tell me how each of the different critics are weighted in your formula?

Absolutely not."


So you have a group of people that are deciding which reviews to count and which ones to ignore, and weighting them differnetly based on uhhh... erm... secret sauce. How can this be seen as even reasonably objective?



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
From a first party standpoint? Absolutely! From a library standpoint? It's a bit harder to tell. I've really only spent excessive time with Zelda, Horizon, and Sonic Mania this year.

The PS4 exclusives this year are amazing. Yakuza 0 + Kiwami(state-wise), Gravity Rush 2, Ni-oh, Horizon:Zero Dawn, Crash Bandicoot N.Sane Trilogy, for people who like Uncharted you have Lost Legacy, and even though they're on other platforms I guess you could count Persona and Nier. I'd at least count Persona.

By comparison Switch exclusives are Zelda, Arms, Splatoon 2, Kingdom Battle, FE Warriors, Super Mario Odyssey, and Xenoblade 2

I can't compare them from personal experience, but it's definitely up to debate

As for sales ... meh. PS4 will outsell Switch this year.

Why does this post look like it's a copy paste article? Dat formatting

I want to play all of the exclusives and compare them, but there's just so many!

Probably, but that's only because NS debut on march while sony's year was on january 1, but 4 months out of 6 the NS has been on the market won sales wise to the ps4 on USA and in japan all 6 months has won the sales war to the ps4.

Rigth now the NS is the hot platform to get, and it will only get bigger with the games are coming, yeah nintendo won 2017.

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/14/nintendo-switch-outsold-xbox-one-and-playstation-4-again-in-august/



34 years playing games.

 

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guiduc said:
DonFerrari said:

You put the opinion of critics above other people. The guy showed that his credentials is above most if not all critics on these reviews. Then you said for him to show his accreditation (that doesn't even excist, that site take several shitty publications on its scores). Yet you as not being specialist isn't accepting his opinion is above yours even though he is an specialist.

Read again and you'll see the point of my contribution, even more when I have done on previous post.

A very hyperbolic claim made by OP, then a guy trying to make Nintendo having one game on 97 by metacritic as an objective evidence that Switch have a better library.

That is litteraly NOT the way I made my argument. Not at all. You're misinterpreting most of it and making it all confusing.

My first post here was about subjectivity vs objectivity. I do NOT indulge the article, nor do I indulge the claim that Nintendo has a better library. And it's not just about putting the opinion of critics above common people. That is not the way I formulated it, and you're taking it out of context and withdrawing the nuance out of it.

I stated, and I repeat, that calling to authority can be a compelling, sometimes valid argument. That is the topic I answered to. And who are the authority, in this industry? Mostly the critics, and the manufacturer themselves. If this isn't the case in your mind, then please, enlighten me.

If people want to look deeper in that debate and question the reliability of the review system, we shall. In another time. But for most, critics are also a way to make up our mind before trying or buying any product. Is potato_hamster more experienced than I am in gaming? Yes. He may have some insight at to what makes a game a good game, and I don't deny it. And I certainly didn't ask for his credentials... I mean, what was that about lol?

He may be in a better position to give a more professional score to, let's say, BOTW. But I didn't come here to comment on Breath of the Wild, but rather on subjectivity vs objectivity. That's why you have taken my remarks out of context. Potato_hamster can formulate his opinion on the matter, it will still be subjective. But combine 100 more opinions to it, the tangent becomes... diluated in subjectivity.

So now, why did you intervene?

So you aren't supporting the initial claim, yet you didn't say it, but then gone to support that person points that are used to prove the initial point... makes a lot of sense.

And you are talking about autorithy being important on this but go and deny the other person credential (which are bigger than yours and most critics, how does that make sense).

Fallacy of authority is always bad on argumentation. It doesn't matter the name or position of who makes the claim (or who you quote), the point itself matters.

I have seem far too much reviewers being unprofessional and developers lying to their benefit to consider their opinion as fact or above my own position.

Aggregation of opinions won't ever be objective.. the plural of annedocte isn't data/statistic the same as the plural of opinion isn't fact/truth. So your point demolishes itself, and that is why is needed to intervene, because you are pushing something wrong and pretend to be right moving the goalpost all along.



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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

I felt like we all had a truce for console wars for the last 9 months or so. Then this article shows up all hell breaks loose. This is only the beginning of course it will get much much worse. Everyone hide!

OT

Anyway obviously this will be very subjective. (Understatement of the year). However the article says Nintendo not Switch. So it means that Nintendo with 3DS + Switch is doing better than anyone else. Regardless I agree with the article. But it is not like that is a surprise



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potato_hamster said:
guiduc said:

Uh? But that goes in circles? If there is no way to determine a common tendency, a tangent, because you reject the basics of the arguments I made, although they are accepted by a majority, I can't really debate on that. I'm sorry you have so little faith in the review system. 

And btw, fuck no. I didn't say it was pure objectivity. I said aggregation are able to weed out some of the poorest reviews in terms of quality and argumentativity. There isn't any fallacy about that. Critics are not the only way to try and establish objectivity, they are a part of it.


It's not that I have little faith in the review system, I just understand what it is. It's mostly composed people like you and me that are decent writers and decided to play and review games for a living. That's it. As a result, I use reviews as an indicator of whether or not I will like a game, not to determine whether one game is objectively better than another. You can't remove the subjectivity out of personal preference, and I don't pretend that it can be mitigated enough to be reasonably objective.

Now you're acting like Metacritic is some kind of authority? From their FAQ

"Why don't you include my publication in your panel?

 

We are always on the lookout for new sources of quality, well-written reviews that are well regarded in the industry or among their peers. Several times throughout the year, we will re-evaulate our current group of publications and make additions and deletions to our panel if necessary. If you feel that your publication deserves inclusion among this elite group, please let us know. Remember, we are only looking for high-quality websites (or print publications).

Can you tell me how each of the different critics are weighted in your formula?

Absolutely not."


So you have a group of people that are deciding which reviews to count and which ones to ignore, and weighting them differnetly based on uhhh... erm... secret sauce. How can this be seen as even reasonably objective?

 

There is no system in itself that is fail-safe. Maybe it isn't strict enough, and maybe our industry needs to tighten up the looses in order to be considered ''more objective'' or of better quality. Why is there 108 critics out there to evaluate Breath of the Wild and 50 for a movie like Dunkerke? Maybe because we need to cut half of these. Maybe half of these shouldn't be allowed to be even considered. Maybe the selection process isn't harsh enough.

We have to make do with something. At least, for now. An average from Gamerankings, Metacritic or whatever else is better at giving a common tendency than... say... your personal opinion? Your personal opinion is the most important thing to you, but for everyone else, for someone who wants the most objective review possible, how do you do? An average can be a good way to.



I agree that Nintendo is having a great year, but Sony is also having a ridiculously good year, and the ps4 has provided more games that I'm interested in this year, including my personal favorite (so far), Horizon. So, I disagree, though I'm glad to own both a ps4 and a Switch. 



This list-war thread is especially dumb as it focuses on Nintendo's obsolete handheld. If you're going to embarrass yourself by using lists as your argument (OP and original author), then at least use one that's relevant.