@BornFirst

personally i play games and have done for years regardless of what people think of me. also I think the large succsess of casual gaming has divided the industry, violent games are being flamed ruthlessly by the media, whereas casual games get praised by the media.

FJ-Warez said: Onyxmeth said: FJ-Warez said: Lol, of course is not the best article in the world, but I can see where it goes, and I still support it, Brain Age, Nintedogs,Cooking Mama, Big Brain Academy (and maybe Tamagochi too), are some the best examples of current Nintendo Games that doesn´t feature violence as selling point and they are doing very good in sales... (Well maybe Cooking Mama not) I understand too that Nintendo has non-violent, non-sport accessible games, but so do many developers. I think Sega deserves just as much credit for games like Super Monkey Ball, Sonic, Jet Set Radio and many others. Not to mention that Zelda is only a few blood splatters away from being an M-rated game itself. The violence is just as realistic as any other fantasy game i've played.   Well with Zelda, as long as the Violence is not performed against Humans there is no problem... And of course, there is more devs, but how many faced succes with this non games?? Monkey ball is great but somehow people didn´t love it...

Why is there no problem if the violence is not performed against humans in Zelda? I'm looking at this from a parent's point of view here. I myself as a parent would not let my daughter play Zelda for a good while because the violence actually is pretty realistic, whether it's against a skeleton or spider or whatever else Link is slashing that day. You don't minus violence by minusing humans from the equation. It doesn't work that way.

Also are we just completely ignoring that Sonic is also in my quote there alongside Jet Set and Monkey Ball? I feel an article giving credit to one developer/publisher for making conscious choices to include everyone in gaming and not giving credit to others doing the same thing is a bit wrong.

 

Onyxmeth said: FJ-Warez said: Onyxmeth said: FJ-Warez said: Lol, of course is not the best article in the world, but I can see where it goes, and I still support it, Brain Age, Nintedogs,Cooking Mama, Big Brain Academy (and maybe Tamagochi too), are some the best examples of current Nintendo Games that doesn´t feature violence as selling point and they are doing very good in sales... (Well maybe Cooking Mama not) I understand too that Nintendo has non-violent, non-sport accessible games, but so do many developers. I think Sega deserves just as much credit for games like Super Monkey Ball, Sonic, Jet Set Radio and many others. Not to mention that Zelda is only a few blood splatters away from being an M-rated game itself. The violence is just as realistic as any other fantasy game i've played.   Well with Zelda, as long as the Violence is not performed against Humans there is no problem... And of course, there is more devs, but how many faced succes with this non games?? Monkey ball is great but somehow people didn´t love it... Why is there no problem if the violence is not performed against humans in Zelda? I'm looking at this from a parent's point of view here. I myself as a parent would not let my daughter play Zelda for a good while because the violence actually is pretty realistic, whether it's against a skeleton or spider or whatever else Link is slashing that day. You don't minus violence by minusing humans from the equation. It doesn't work that way. Also are we just completely ignoring that Sonic is also in my quote there alongside Jet Set and Monkey Ball? I feel an article giving credit to one developer/publisher for making conscious choices to include everyone in gaming and not giving credit to others doing the same thing is a bit wrong.

Well ESBR and the movie industry take the realistic violence performed against humans as 18+ or Mature,  B+15 or C... thats why I´m saying there is no problem, because is not performing a act that can be associated to harm a human...in the same way how many games teach you to hurt animals like cats, dogs, birds???

And about Sega, well thats the author problem he choosed to leave it out... I´m not syaing Ninty deserves the whole credit but so far is the best example out there...

PS360ForTheWin said: @BornFirst personally i play games and have done for years regardless of what people think of me. also I think the large succsess of casual gaming has divided the industry, violent games are being flamed ruthlessly by the media, whereas casual games get praised by the media.

 Don't you just hate that? How is it that a movie like "No country for Old Men" (I loved that movie) can get away with all that violence, and videogames can't? I think videogames, like movies, are art. If the artist sees necessary to put violence in it to send a message, let him do it.

Johann said: PS360ForTheWin said: @BornFirst personally i play games and have done for years regardless of what people think of me. also I think the large succsess of casual gaming has divided the industry, violent games are being flamed ruthlessly by the media, whereas casual games get praised by the media. Don't you just hate that? How is it that a movie like "No country for Old Men" (I loved that movie) can get away with all that violence, and videogames can't? I think videogames, like movies, are art. If the artist sees necessary to put violence in it to send a message, let him do it.

 I don't know.  I'm not sure that the media actually hurt sales.  It gives free promotion to a degree.  I mean, I'm sure the problems the media had with the sex scenes in Mass Effect probably made some people go "Oh, that's one I want to buy".  It would have given me a bit more reason to look into the game  ::grin::, if I didn't already have it.

And I think PS360ForTheWin is getting a bit hypersensitive.  I didn't see anyone trying to tell you to get a Nintendo system.  I can understand disliking people trying to say Nintendo is the greatest thing ever, because we all have our own opinions.  But I think the main reason behind this article and the OP posting it, is to combat the whole Nintendo is 'kiddie' flaming. 

FJ-Warez said: Well with Zelda, as long as the Violence is not performed against Humans there is no problem... And of course, there is more devs, but how many faced succes with this non games?? Monkey ball is great but somehow people didn´t love it...

 Please tell me that you had a brain fart or something and you just aren't being stupid.  There is plenty of fighting in Zelda against humans.  Gannon for one is human, in LttP, Gannon had a wizard as his underling and in TP another wizard as an underling (though he was a Twili, he definately resembled a human).  In LttP you run around killing a bunch of soldiers.  In OoT you fight the desert people.

I totally agree with the bolded part.  In a good RPG you give a damn about the world and the characters through the story.  As much as I love Zelda, it feels more like, "OK, that idiot Zelda and her dumbass father fucked things up again and here I come to the rescue.  Can't someone just invent something to off anyone named Gannon?"  I am currently playing Mario Galaxy, but it is also, "Ok, that idiot Peach gone and got kidnapped again.  Here I come to the rescue, again.  Why can't she just hire some competant body guards, she is the damned princess after all."

cwbys21 said: FJ-Warez said: Well with Zelda, as long as the Violence is not performed against Humans there is no problem... And of course, there is more devs, but how many faced succes with this non games?? Monkey ball is great but somehow people didn´t love it... Please tell me that you had a brain fart or something and you just aren't being stupid. There is plenty of fighting in Zelda against humans. Gannon for one is human, in LttP, Gannon had a wizard as his underling and in TP another wizard as an underling (though he was a Twili, he definately resembled a human). In LttP you run around killing a bunch of soldiers. In OoT you fight the desert people.

For that matter, in LttP pretty much all the enemies in the first part of the game are humans. Red/Green/Blue knights + the ball & chain miniboss.

And what were the Gerudo in OOT suppose to be then?

Johann said: PS360ForTheWin said: @BornFirst personally i play games and have done for years regardless of what people think of me. also I think the large succsess of casual gaming has divided the industry, violent games are being flamed ruthlessly by the media, whereas casual games get praised by the media.  Don't you just hate that? How is it that a movie like "No country for Old Men" (I loved that movie) can get away with all that violence, and videogames can't? I think videogames, like movies, are art. If the artist sees necessary to put violence in it to send a message, let him do it.

 

But movies have a lot more variety in the public eye than games, and thats where the problem is. Don't you see, every body who is not a gamer thinks games are about violence, sex and a waste of time. The truth is not everybody wants to shoot something, or be immersed in some other world, and it seems thats what every other game is trying to do. Nintendo and a few others (harmonix come to mind, with guiter hero) are creating social/lifestyle games, so that the mainstream, public, can also be included. Thats where the real problem lies, gaming has shunned the average person especially Girls and the elderly for so long, that for the most part the folks who were shunned in turn have shunned gaming. 

Who cares if games are art or not, i think the argument is total bullshit. Why does it matter. Gaming is a relatively young medium, and nearly every popular entertainment medium went through the same thing.  How the hell can you expect people to except gaming as a mature and healthy thing to do, when all they see are games Like Gears of War, where you are shooting the crap out of an alien and you avatar is scramming "eat shit and die" (by the way i love GOW). Yeah thats real mature.

How far do you think hollywood would have come should every movie have been the terminator or Rambo? The reason hollywood, and films in general have a lot more respect is because there is a healthy balance for everybody, For every "Hostel" released, there was also "Memoirs of a Geisha", for every "Bad Boys" there was "Fahrenheit 911". And for the Last 15-20 years gaming has never had such a veriety(well at least in the public eye).

It seems a lot of hardcore gamers won't except or be happy with all theses new folks in gaming, unless they are playing the Halo's or the Resistance. But why i ask my self. I would never force any one like PS360ForTheWin to playing the games i love if he is not intersted, so there is no need for hardcore gamers to be upset about the non- traditional Gamers (folkes labled as casuals, by my hardcore brethren) to enjoy games like carnival games. If they enjoy it, then the game does its job. I personally can't stand the FPS genre, yet you do not here me complaining when a game like HALO or Resistence sell a lot of copies. ' But those are good Games' i hear you hardcore spew, yes, they are but to u, just like Carnival games is good to them. The industry is big enough for all types of game.

 

Did J-oel actually leave? I doubt it, he'll be back in a couple of days or he'll just create a new account so he can reach his desperately wanted mod status.

FJ-Warez said: Well with Zelda, as long as the Violence is not performed against Humans there is no problem... And of course, there is more devs, but how many faced succes with this non games?? Monkey ball is great but somehow people didn´t love it...

cwbys21  Please tell me that you had a brain fart or something and you just aren't being stupid.  There is plenty of fighting in Zelda against humans.  Gannon for one is human, in LttP, Gannon had a wizard as his underling and in TP another wizard as an underling (though he was a Twili, he definately resembled a human).  In LttP you run around killing a bunch of soldiers.  In OoT you fight the desert people.

 

Show me one realistic violence scene in Zelda vs a human, with "red" blood and all the stuff... when you fight ganon, does he bleed? Resembling human is not the same vs perfoming violence to a real human, as long as they don´t bleed red blood (Like ganon in OoT, later changed to green), how can you take it like violence to a human...

Again, context, in other Zelda games, all the stuff is in a Cartnoonish way...

You never kill any gerudo in that part of the game... and the Twinrova go to heaven...without bleeding or showing explicit death...