Forums - Sales Discussion - July 2017 NPD Thread! Switch #1

DialgaMarine said:
DaveTheMinion13 said:
Switch should win this month, a brand new console/handheld should be at least. Splatoon seemed to have done pretty good as well. Should be a fight between splatoon and Crash

Outside of Japan, I think Crash has easily won that battle. 

Well It won handily in Europe and Splatoon won handily in Japan.  US will be close actually.  Splatoon finished July at #3 on Amazon and Crash came in at #11.  That gives Splatoon the edge, but because Amazon is not as reliable with software sales, it's close enough to go either way.



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Nuvendil said:
CosmicSex said:
As a consumer, I don't like the secret nature of hiding sales. Japan has released numbers for years and no one blew up. Here it seems to protectionist. After all, as consumers, we are the ones generating this information. It is ours literally.

I mean I don't like it either, but NPD is a research group that formulates these estimates so no, we don't strictly speaking generate this data.  They aren't counting every single sale individually. 

You can take the "estimate" part with a grain of salt. It's pretty much just straight sales data.

This is how it works:

1) Every month, NPD gets direct, point-of-sale transaction data from all of the major retailers and all of their online websites. That's 95% of the market.

2) Then, NPD gets direct data from another 2% of smaller retailers.

3) The remaining 3% NPD estimates with algorithms.

We as consumers collectively generate 97% of NPD's data, so I do feel like it's something we should have access to.

A long long time ago, we used to get some direct data....before a retailer / a few third-parties started complaining, that is.



April 30th, 2011 - July 12th, 2018

librarian13579 said:
Nuvendil said:

I mean I don't like it either, but NPD is a research group that formulates these estimates so no, we don't strictly speaking generate this data.  They aren't counting every single sale individually. 

You can take the "estimate" part with a grain of salt. It's pretty much just straight sales data.

This is how it works:

1) Every month, NPD gets direct, point-of-sale transaction data from all of the major retailers and all of their online websites. That's 95% of the market.

2) Then, NPD gets direct data from another 2% of smaller retailers.

3) The remaining 3% NPD estimates with algorithms.

We as consumers collectively generate 97% of NPD's data, so I do feel like it's something we should have access to.

A long long time ago, we used to get some direct data....before some of the retailers / third-parties started complaining, that is.

True enough.

But might I ask, why should this information be available?  On what are you basing this perceived right?  Because we bought the products?  The purchase is an exchange of money for a product or service.  It only gives the right to use or own that product or service.  In what way are consumers harmed in any capacity by sales data of this nature not being public?  I mean, publicly traded companies have to divulge their sales anyway quarterly.  Beyond our own ammusement or hobby of tracking sales, what does this information give us? 



Nuvendil said:
librarian13579 said:

You can take the "estimate" part with a grain of salt. It's pretty much just straight sales data.

This is how it works:

1) Every month, NPD gets direct, point-of-sale transaction data from all of the major retailers and all of their online websites. That's 95% of the market.

2) Then, NPD gets direct data from another 2% of smaller retailers.

3) The remaining 3% NPD estimates with algorithms.

We as consumers collectively generate 97% of NPD's data, so I do feel like it's something we should have access to.

A long long time ago, we used to get some direct data....before some of the retailers / third-parties started complaining, that is.

True enough.

But might I ask, why should this information be available?  On what are you basing this perceived right?  Because we bought the products?  The purchase is an exchange of money for a product or service.  It only gives the right to use or own that product or service.  In what way are consumers harmed in any capacity by sales data of this nature not being public?  I mean, publicly traded companies have to divulge their sales anyway quarterly.  Beyond our own ammusement or hobby of tracking sales, what does this information give us? 

They really don't. Legally, all they have to establish is materiality by sector.

In other words, corporations only need to divulge revenue from the major divisional segments. They don't need to delineate any further than that. It's fine for shareholders, but it can often obfuscate the performance of products (e.g. Microsoft using MAUs instead of unit shipments for Xbox performance).

I just think that, because DVD/Blu-Ray sales (in some areas), album sales, Japanese video game sales, and box office movie sales are commonly divulged, so too should western video games. It's a matter of principle more than anything.

Kadokawa isn't losing any business because they share the Top 30 + hardware sales every week. NPD wouldn't lose any clients if they went that route, either. They're just bowing to the whims of petty corporations.



April 30th, 2011 - July 12th, 2018

Tagging. Hope we get some good leaks again this month.

Seeing how much the NS sold should be quite telling.



Bets:

1. If the Wii U sells closer to 10 million LTD by 1/3/2015 I win. If it sells closer to 9.5 million LTD by 1/3/2015 OfficerRaichu15 wins (winner gets 2 weeks of avatar control)--Lost.

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librarian13579 said:
Nuvendil said:

I mean I don't like it either, but NPD is a research group that formulates these estimates so no, we don't strictly speaking generate this data.  They aren't counting every single sale individually. 

You can take the "estimate" part with a grain of salt. It's pretty much just straight sales data.

This is how it works:

1) Every month, NPD gets direct, point-of-sale transaction data from all of the major retailers and all of their online websites. That's 95% of the market.

2) Then, NPD gets direct data from another 2% of smaller retailers.

3) The remaining 3% NPD estimates with algorithms.

We as consumers collectively generate 97% of NPD's data, so I do feel like it's something we should have access to.

A long long time ago, we used to get some direct data....before a retailer / a few third-parties started complaining, that is.

Man, how I wish it was like Billboard. It'd be awesome if we had a weekly sales chart that went back to say, the 4th gen. I'd love to see the weekly #1 titles. Of course, it's way too late for that now.



Nuvendil said:
librarian13579 said:

You can take the "estimate" part with a grain of salt. It's pretty much just straight sales data.

This is how it works:

1) Every month, NPD gets direct, point-of-sale transaction data from all of the major retailers and all of their online websites. That's 95% of the market.

2) Then, NPD gets direct data from another 2% of smaller retailers.

3) The remaining 3% NPD estimates with algorithms.

We as consumers collectively generate 97% of NPD's data, so I do feel like it's something we should have access to.

A long long time ago, we used to get some direct data....before some of the retailers / third-parties started complaining, that is.

True enough.

But might I ask, why should this information be available?  On what are you basing this perceived right?  Because we bought the products?  The purchase is an exchange of money for a product or service.  It only gives the right to use or own that product or service.  In what way are consumers harmed in any capacity by sales data of this nature not being public?  I mean, publicly traded companies have to divulge their sales anyway quarterly.  Beyond our own ammusement or hobby of tracking sales, what does this information give us? 

A better question is why the companies should have the right to hide it because that is what is happening.  Hardly no other industry does this.



CosmicSex said:
Nuvendil said:

True enough.

But might I ask, why should this information be available?  On what are you basing this perceived right?  Because we bought the products?  The purchase is an exchange of money for a product or service.  It only gives the right to use or own that product or service.  In what way are consumers harmed in any capacity by sales data of this nature not being public?  I mean, publicly traded companies have to divulge their sales anyway quarterly.  Beyond our own ammusement or hobby of tracking sales, what does this information give us? 

A better question is why the companies should have the right to hide it because that is what is happening.  Hardly no other industry does this.

What other industry posts exact sales numbers though? Car or phone maunfacurers only do when they hit big milestones or generally sell extremly well, but for most you won't get to hear any sales numbers at all. Outside of video games posting specific sales numbers are mostly just bragging rights, nothing else.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
CosmicSex said:

A better question is why the companies should have the right to hide it because that is what is happening.  Hardly no other industry does this.

What other industry posts exact sales numbers though? Car or phone maunfacurers only do when they hit big milestones or generally sell extremly well, but for most you won't get to hear any sales numbers at all. Outside of video games posting specific sales numbers are mostly just bragging rights, nothing else.

In general, people care about sales when they are invested in a company's future.

We are interested in the success of companies that provide us with art (like movies, TV, and games) because receiving new experiences in the future fundamentally depends on their products selling well.

If a product is driven by an individual creator (like books or music), or it's a generic commodity that's serves a function (like cars, power tools, snowmobiles), there isn't nearly the same level of interest, because new products (or functionally equivalent products) will release regardless of how the old ones perform. 

For example, authors will continue to write, regardless how one of their books may or may not sell. So, we don't have a vested interest in how books perform sales-wise because we know we'll always get new books from an author we like no matter what. In another example, people don't care nearly as much about car sales because people buy a single car and own it for 10 years. If Toyota goes out of business 2 years in that's a shame, but we still have 8 years left on our current car, and we can easily buy another car from Honda which is just as good (if not better).

But there isn't really an equivalent when Intelligent Systems goes out of business, because then we'll probably never see Advance Wars or Fire Emblem games ever again...and those products are unique IPs that we get very attached to.

I think there is more of an obligation for those type of companies to release their sales data as a courtesy to their fans.



April 30th, 2011 - July 12th, 2018

librarian13579 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

What other industry posts exact sales numbers though? Car or phone maunfacurers only do when they hit big milestones or generally sell extremly well, but for most you won't get to hear any sales numbers at all. Outside of video games posting specific sales numbers are mostly just bragging rights, nothing else.

In general, people care about sales when they are invested in a company's future.

We are interested in the success of companies that provide us with art (like movies, TV, and games) because receiving new experiences in the future fundamentally depends on their products selling well.

If a product is driven by an individual creator (like books or music), or it's a generic commodity that's serves a function (like cars, power tools, snowmobiles), there isn't nearly the same level of interest, because new products (or functionally equivalent products) will release regardless of how the old ones perform. 

For example, authors will continue to write, regardless how one of their books may or may not sell. So, we don't have a vested interest in how books perform sales-wise because we know we'll always get new books from an author we like no matter what. In another example, people don't care nearly as much about car sales because people buy a single car and own it for 10 years. If Toyota goes out of business 2 years in that's a shame, but we still have 8 years left on our current car, and we can easily buy another car from Honda which is just as good (if not better).

But there isn't really an equivalent when Intelligent Systems goes out of business, because then we'll probably never see Advance Wars or Fire Emblem games ever again...and those products are unique IPs that we get very attached to.

I think there is more of an obligation for those type of companies to release their sales data as a courtesy to their fans.

So it's a courtesy?  I get that but again, it's more a personal principle.

And as an aspiring  author I just have to say that the bolded is so bafflingly untrue.  Not only will authors scale back or stop their writing if it makes them no money, but the overwhelming majority of quality books are published by publishing houses who will, yes, publish low sellers for a time but that will stop.  You can't perpetually underperform on the market and expect, say, Random House to continue to spend large ammounts of money to put your books on shelves.  And independent publishing isn't cheap if you want to have a shot in the market.  You definitely can't keep doing that if your sales are poor.  Authors aren't inhumans who live on creative fulfillment, we're human beings who also have to make a living. And writing takes time and effort that if it isn't making money can only be allowed to take up so much of our days.