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Forums - Sports Discussion - NBA offseason is wild

By the way, when are the Pelicans gonna do something to put decent players around the Davis/Cousins tandem? I know they got Holiday back, but they need to do more. If you ask me, they should go after Iggy.



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pokoko said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

That is silly. I look at baseball and have no problem with there being no salary cap. It has not hurt the competition within that sport and also creates phenonenal underdog stories that we all love. I also have no problem with Soccer having a lack of salary cap. It did nothing to stop Leicester City winning the premier league last year. Lets not act like parity is about money and not about talent and team chemistry.

Cavs had the highest payroll in NBA history last season and that payroll did not stop Golden State from romping them. Lets not blame lack of parity on money. There has never been much parity in the NBA anyway.

The NFL creates an illusion of parity (New England has been in nothing less than the AFC Finals every season but two since like 2001, after all) through the, "one and done" playoff structure that give more leeway to upsets. In a best of seven atmosphere, the, "parity illusion" is removed because the best team almost always wins.

What a silly thing to say.  Do you not understand that money is a big factor in bringing in talent?  "Illusion of parity" doesn't make sense, either.  The best team winning is fine, the point is that other teams have a chance to build themselves up and often do.  The Falcons, Panthers, and Saints have all been to the SuperBowl in the last seven years coming out of the same division.  You can pencil in what is going to happen each year in the NBA.  If you think it's the same as the NFL's "illusion" of parity then you don't know what you're talking about.

Also, bringing up the Cavs as an example of having a high-price team not doing well?  The team that has been to three straight title games?  Seriously?  

If you're fine with the way the NBA is right now then just say so.  You don't need to be condescending.

Your post and this post are worthy of condescention. I understand you avoided my baseball argument.

It is an illusion of parity. Bostom beat Cleveland one game in the playoffs and Chicago beat Boston twice in a row in Boston before Rondo got hurt. If these were one game series, then there could have been upsets and the, "illusion" is complete.

I never said Cleveland didn't do well. I said their super high payroll didn't get them an automatic title. Which seems to lend to an illusion of parity but whatever.

Your point about football is still negated by the, "one-and-done" nature. Sure Carolina was favored to get to the finals but was Atlanta or New Orleans? No. And in Carolina's case, they were favored to win that Super Bowl which only leads to the best team not always winning in the NFL. You also avoided that New England is always there. That is parity to you?

I am not claiming to be fine with the NBA as presently constructed. I am saying your feeling that salary caps will help is wrong and silly. Baseball has no salary cap and we have seen teams from evverywhere do well and win. What I really wanted was Melo and Paul George to go to Cleveland so we could have the All-Star game as the NBA Finals but... TAKEN SERIOUSLY by the players. I wanted to see all time talent on the floor but salary caps prevent that from being a reality.



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GhaudePhaede010 said:
pokoko said:

What a silly thing to say.  Do you not understand that money is a big factor in bringing in talent?  "Illusion of parity" doesn't make sense, either.  The best team winning is fine, the point is that other teams have a chance to build themselves up and often do.  The Falcons, Panthers, and Saints have all been to the SuperBowl in the last seven years coming out of the same division.  You can pencil in what is going to happen each year in the NBA.  If you think it's the same as the NFL's "illusion" of parity then you don't know what you're talking about.

Also, bringing up the Cavs as an example of having a high-price team not doing well?  The team that has been to three straight title games?  Seriously?  

If you're fine with the way the NBA is right now then just say so.  You don't need to be condescending.

Your post and this post are worthy of condescention. I understand you avoided my baseball argument.

It is an illusion of parity. Bostom beat Cleveland one game in the playoffs and Chicago beat Boston twice in a row in Boston before Rondo got hurt. If these were one game series, then there could have been upsets and the, "illusion" is complete.

I never said Cleveland didn't do well. I said their super high payroll didn't get them an automatic title. Which seems to lend to an illusion of parity but whatever.

Your point about football is still negated by the, "one-and-done" nature. Sure Carolina was favored to get to the finals but was Atlanta or New Orleans? No. And in Carolina's case, they were favored to win that Super Bowl which only leads to the best team not always winning in the NFL. You also avoided that New England is always there. That is parity to you?

I am not claiming to be fine with the NBA as presently constructed. I am saying your feeling that salary caps will help is wrong and silly. Baseball has no salary cap and we have seen teams from evverywhere do well and win. What I really wanted was Melo and Paul George to go to Cleveland so we could have the All-Star game as the NBA Finals but... TAKEN SERIOUSLY by the players. I wanted to see all time talent on the floor but salary caps prevent that from being a reality.

First, the baseball argument is terrible.  MLB is a league where small market teams are often building up quality young players only to set them free because they can't afford them.  MLB even gives out extra draft picks to small market teams in order to make an attempt at parity.  It's an issue that everyone knows about and talks about often but you're pretending it doesn't exist?  How does that make any sense?  Articles are written constantly about the free-agent disparity in baseball and how the big market teams keep widening the gap.

And now what are you even talking about with being favored to win the Superbowl?  That's gibberish.  Parity has nothing to do with "being favored to win".  It's about having a chance, if you make some good moves, to compete for your division or advance in the playoffs.  You're trying to create some false image of parity and it just seems ignorant.  All you have are excuses.  New England is there because they keep making great moves even though they have had to replace quality players many times.  They earned their trips to the Superbowl, they didn't buy them.

That you keep citing baseball as a good example just means you don't know what you're talking about.  

 

Going into Sunday, 18 teams entered with records of .500 or better – and 16 of them started the season with $100 million-plus payrolls. Of the dozen sub-.500 teams, just four carried payrolls over $100 million. The correlation of payroll to winning percentage is almost twice as strong in 2016 as it has been in the other four years of the current basic agreement, and while it's still only moderate in its relationship, alarms are sounding across baseball, particularly in the front offices of the 10 teams with eight-figure payrolls.

"In what other sport is it OK for one team to spend three times as much as another?" one GM said recently.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/10-degrees--mlb-s-economic-disparity-and-why-its-top-bargains-are-so-valuable-041029009.html


"All-Star game as the NBA Finals ..."  Yeah, I don't even know what you're talking about now.  I'm very sorry Melo and Paul George didn't go to Cleveland.  That would have fixed all the issues right there.  Heh. 

 



With the Rockets,  I don't like giving up depth for 1 player.  Beverley and Williams are good players and give the Clippers depth in return for Paul. If they can land one good all around player they got the better end of the deal. They are just freaking out over the Warriors, this is causing some overreaction and bad moves.



I can see LeBron resting A LOT. At this rate, the nets will enter the playoffs with 12 wins and LeBron will retire at 72.

The rest issue was annoying last year, but what about now? I personally think they should make a simple rule- if a player chooses to not be in a game and rest, they don't get paid that game. That'd be fair honestly.



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monocle_layton said:
I can see LeBron resting A LOT. At this rate, the nets will enter the playoffs with 12 wins and LeBron will retire at 72.

The rest issue was annoying last year, but what about now? I personally think they should make a simple rule- if a player chooses to not be in a game and rest, they don't get paid that game. That'd be fair honestly.

Then they'll just come up with some BS injury/sickness to keep people out of games.



pokoko said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

Your post and this post are worthy of condescention. I understand you avoided my baseball argument.

It is an illusion of parity. Bostom beat Cleveland one game in the playoffs and Chicago beat Boston twice in a row in Boston before Rondo got hurt. If these were one game series, then there could have been upsets and the, "illusion" is complete.

I never said Cleveland didn't do well. I said their super high payroll didn't get them an automatic title. Which seems to lend to an illusion of parity but whatever.

Your point about football is still negated by the, "one-and-done" nature. Sure Carolina was favored to get to the finals but was Atlanta or New Orleans? No. And in Carolina's case, they were favored to win that Super Bowl which only leads to the best team not always winning in the NFL. You also avoided that New England is always there. That is parity to you?

I am not claiming to be fine with the NBA as presently constructed. I am saying your feeling that salary caps will help is wrong and silly. Baseball has no salary cap and we have seen teams from evverywhere do well and win. What I really wanted was Melo and Paul George to go to Cleveland so we could have the All-Star game as the NBA Finals but... TAKEN SERIOUSLY by the players. I wanted to see all time talent on the floor but salary caps prevent that from being a reality.

First, the baseball argument is terrible.  MLB is a league where small market teams are often building up quality young players only to set them free because they can't afford them.  MLB even gives out extra draft picks to small market teams in order to make an attempt at parity.  It's an issue that everyone knows about and talks about often but you're pretending it doesn't exist?  How does that make any sense?  Articles are written constantly about the free-agent disparity in baseball and how the big market teams keep widening the gap.

And now what are you even talking about with being favored to win the Superbowl?  That's gibberish.  Parity has nothing to do with "being favored to win".  It's about having a chance, if you make some good moves, to compete for your division or advance in the playoffs.  You're trying to create some false image of parity and it just seems ignorant.  All you have are excuses.  New England is there because they keep making great moves even though they have had to replace quality players many times.  They earned their trips to the Superbowl, they didn't buy them.

That you keep citing baseball as a good example just means you don't know what you're talking about.  

 

Going into Sunday, 18 teams entered with records of .500 or better – and 16 of them started the season with $100 million-plus payrolls. Of the dozen sub-.500 teams, just four carried payrolls over $100 million. The correlation of payroll to winning percentage is almost twice as strong in 2016 as it has been in the other four years of the current basic agreement, and while it's still only moderate in its relationship, alarms are sounding across baseball, particularly in the front offices of the 10 teams with eight-figure payrolls.

"In what other sport is it OK for one team to spend three times as much as another?" one GM said recently.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/10-degrees--mlb-s-economic-disparity-and-why-its-top-bargains-are-so-valuable-041029009.html


"All-Star game as the NBA Finals ..."  Yeah, I don't even know what you're talking about now.  I'm very sorry Melo and Paul George didn't go to Cleveland.  That would have fixed all the issues right there.  Heh. 

 

I didn't read your whole post because I am at work but I read where you said baseball is NOT a good example and then you gave a bogus reason as to why: Because the teams are allowed to spend as much money as they want. But that is the way it should be. Teams can afford to pay what they want. Because then more teams can spend. Owners have the money but can't spend it. That is the real handicap for the teams, the players, and most importantly, us - the fan. And has a lack of salary cap stumped the league into the situation that the NBA is facing? Are we looking at the same two teams every year? Maybe your theory is off a little.

Your last statement just shows me how backward your thinking is. If one team in the east had 5 all stars as their starting lineup and one team in the west equally equipped, I get to see the best bunch of basketball ever played. However, unlike the all star game, the players will play like the games mean something. Highest quality of basketball ever watched. And you want that to not happen because you want harsher salary cap restrictions. Sad.

Now I see your parity argument which is trash. I already said, if the NBA did a one-and-done system like the NFL, there is a solid chance Cleveland does not make it to the finals. Does that give you a better sense of parity? Well, it shouldn't because we all know Cleveland was still the better team. Anything can happen in a one-and-done atmosphere. It means you will feel parity where there really isn't any. Every team has a chance. Even Golden State needed to cheat to beat San Antonio in game 1. If it was a one-and-done situation, maybe San Antonio holds on and we get San Antonio vs Boston or Chicago in the finals. You never know. It would look like parity but only because they do not play best of seven.



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Nothing the Bulls does surprises me anymore.. They're acting like they're "rebuilding" like the Cubs did 5 years ago but these so called prospects they got for Jimmy look questionable at best. We need a new front office. Garpax don't know what the hell they're doing. I give us at least a decade before we even have a chance again. 



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

GhaudePhaede010 said:
pokoko said:

First, the baseball argument is terrible.  MLB is a league where small market teams are often building up quality young players only to set them free because they can't afford them.  MLB even gives out extra draft picks to small market teams in order to make an attempt at parity.  It's an issue that everyone knows about and talks about often but you're pretending it doesn't exist?  How does that make any sense?  Articles are written constantly about the free-agent disparity in baseball and how the big market teams keep widening the gap.

And now what are you even talking about with being favored to win the Superbowl?  That's gibberish.  Parity has nothing to do with "being favored to win".  It's about having a chance, if you make some good moves, to compete for your division or advance in the playoffs.  You're trying to create some false image of parity and it just seems ignorant.  All you have are excuses.  New England is there because they keep making great moves even though they have had to replace quality players many times.  They earned their trips to the Superbowl, they didn't buy them.

That you keep citing baseball as a good example just means you don't know what you're talking about.  

 

Going into Sunday, 18 teams entered with records of .500 or better – and 16 of them started the season with $100 million-plus payrolls. Of the dozen sub-.500 teams, just four carried payrolls over $100 million. The correlation of payroll to winning percentage is almost twice as strong in 2016 as it has been in the other four years of the current basic agreement, and while it's still only moderate in its relationship, alarms are sounding across baseball, particularly in the front offices of the 10 teams with eight-figure payrolls.

"In what other sport is it OK for one team to spend three times as much as another?" one GM said recently.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/10-degrees--mlb-s-economic-disparity-and-why-its-top-bargains-are-so-valuable-041029009.html


"All-Star game as the NBA Finals ..."  Yeah, I don't even know what you're talking about now.  I'm very sorry Melo and Paul George didn't go to Cleveland.  That would have fixed all the issues right there.  Heh. 

 

I didn't read your whole post because I am at work but I read where you said baseball is NOT a good example and then you gave a bogus reason as to why: Because the teams are allowed to spend as much money as they want. But that is the way it should be. Teams can afford to pay what they want. Because then more teams can spend. Owners have the money but can't spend it. That is the real handicap for the teams, the players, and most importantly, us - the fan. And has a lack of salary cap stumped the league into the situation that the NBA is facing? Are we looking at the same two teams every year? Maybe your theory is off a little.

Your last statement just shows me how backward your thinking is. If one team in the east had 5 all stars as their starting lineup and one team in the west equally equipped, I get to see the best bunch of basketball ever played. However, unlike the all star game, the players will play like the games mean something. Highest quality of basketball ever watched. And you want that to not happen because you want harsher salary cap restrictions. Sad.

Now I see your parity argument which is trash. I already said, if the NBA did a one-and-done system like the NFL, there is a solid chance Cleveland does not make it to the finals. Does that give you a better sense of parity? Well, it shouldn't because we all know Cleveland was still the better team. Anything can happen in a one-and-done atmosphere. It means you will feel parity where there really isn't any. Every team has a chance. Even Golden State needed to cheat to beat San Antonio in game 1. If it was a one-and-done situation, maybe San Antonio holds on and we get San Antonio vs Boston or Chicago in the finals. You never know. It would look like parity but only because they do not play best of seven.

I understand now what you want.  A few stacked super-teams while everyone else is mediocre and we see the same teams and players in the finals every single year.  Ugh.  It's actually fine if you want that, as least you admit it, though your arrogance over it is sad and out of place.

Also, your "one-and-done" phrase is pure idiocy.  You have no idea what you're talking about at all, it's like watching a child pretending to do math.  When competition is higher, teams actually have to fight every year to make it to the top.  Your "bu but X might happen and then Y might happen and someone might get injured and they cheated and it just looks like parity if different teams are being competitive but it's really not" excuse-crafting is absolutely laughable.  You have no grasp of this at all.  

Just run along and root for your super-teams and big market franchises who buy the best players (even though you said money has nothing to do with it).  



And Iggy just resigned for 3 years $48 million. Javale is really the last piece to sign minus Durant of course, but ultimately great job by the Warriors for retaining their team.