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Forums - Politics Discussion - Ford Cancels Plans To Move US Factory To Mexico Due To Trump ... (Hint: China)

Superman4 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
And this is why states should be able to seize assets of profit-turning companies who decide to relocate overseas. The extra profit through wages in China is going to be small, but every bit of margin for stock holders is welcome it seems. These companies have no morals.

States and or governments should not be able to "seize" anything. Companies are around to make money, if it’s cheaper to go to China or Mexico than it is well within their right to do so. It is the failed policies of the administration which allows it to be cheaper to import goods. Any and all imports should be taxed according to current US wages to now include medical costs since the Democrats want "free healthcare" to be mandatory for everyone. So essentially take the cost of a vehicle made in the US based on labor and materials per car/good and apply a tax accordingly per item imported based on that amount regardless of where it comes from. For companies with no US presence take the average of all imports from domestically owned companies and apply that tax to any 3rd party imports. 

 

Bottom line is the government needs to fix the laws in order to make it profitable to operate in the US. Mandating healthcare and other social programs will only force more companies to move overseas or across a border to another country that is cheaper. The last thing I want or anyone needs is the government being able to seize assets because they don’t like what you are doing. It’s bad enough police seem to think its ok to seize assets of people committing a crime and re-use those seized items for personal gain.

It's already proven that universal healthcare will lower costs compared to Medicate, the AHCA and the ACA due to it being a simpler and more effective system. I don't condone just seizing everything if you're concerned, only in the when large companies have clearly violated an agreement with the state or broke tax evasion laws when moving out. I'm certainly against seizing assets from citizens except maybe under very specific circumstances (which I can't even think of now). And of course, implementing correct import taxes can help. Competition can be good, so these don't need to be too heavy, but they need to be heavy enough to level the playing field somewhat.



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Cobretti2 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

If there really is an unfair advantage because overseas manufacturing is way cheaper, you can always raise the import tax to somewhat protect the local industries.

Well they aleady do have like a 30% import tax on cars. If you push any more then all cars would cost 40-60k. Not many people will buy a car for that price.

Now that Ford and GM will be gone soon, those taxes will drop and cars will be even more cheaper.

Part of the car manufacturers problem is their monopoly and cartel-forming tendencies. GM is too big and inneficiënt for it's own good and relocating is not going to help. I'm for an import tax, but you can't solve corporate incompetance through an import tax, no matter how high.



Cobretti2 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

If there really is an unfair advantage because overseas manufacturing is way cheaper, you can always raise the import tax to somewhat protect the local industries.

Well they aleady do have like a 30% import tax on cars. If you push any more then all cars would cost 40-60k. Not many people will buy a car for that price.

Now that Ford and GM will be gone soon, those taxes will drop and cars will be even more cheaper.

Cars wont be cheaper, they will not pass on any savings to the consumer. I dont care how much you pay the union employees at a factory, it does not cost 60K+ to build a Cadillac or a Tahoe, they are the same chassis with different cosmetics. They want bigger bonuses and higher corporate wages.



I am living in Switzerland but from outside, i cant see any difference between trump and hillary. Sanders seems trustable but the two candidates are both corrupt.



Aeolus451 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Oh please, costs for companies have been going down worldwide since the 1980's. Campanies are playing nations against each other to get the best bargain price on their taxes. I've been hammering the point for COMPANIES WHO MAKE PROFIT. Companies that turn losses obviously need to cut somewhere. Indeed the goverment must regulate, but the competition between the countries must stop. This downward spiral is ruining public finances and you have come up with NO solutions except to carry on towards economic ruin. Of course the government shouldn't strongarm companies when it's not necessary, but companies are always in a lower position then the state. If a few companies need to be disowed because they broke their contracts, so be it.

Ford once recieved several million euros in Belgium for them to upgrade their factory. That was a made deal. One year later, Ford packed it's coffers and left abroad. In this case, the state has every right to seize assets since Ford basically stole public money while under contract.

And please, Venezuela is a poor example. Venezuela has a structural economic trade problem, not a problem caused by unionism.

Provide a decent solution, then I'd listen.

That's false. If that was case then they would be making even more money since the keep charging more for the same services. Costs keep rising due to a multitude of things like unions, employee benefits, prices of materials, new taxes/fees, inflation,  etc. It's a fact.  For example, those $15/hr minium wage knuckleheads don't realize they'll lose a lot of jobs if that's implemented because it would increase the cost for businesses by a considerable amount. Mcdonalds would just become automated and everyone would suffer in some sense because of that. I can't imagine what their sandwhiches would taste like if that happened. haha. People need to learn how to be more pragmatic. 

Competition between countries for business. That's never gonna stop and it's a good thing in general. 

I already gave a solution. Just reduce costs for businesses to operate and have employees. It will solve itself. 

Sure it will.  We just have to degenerate our standard of living to match the lowest in the world.  That will certainly solve things.  Of course, that will result in other countries lowering their standards in order to attract businesses, too, so we'd have to downgrade again.  Maybe end up in situations where we are not only getting rid of corporate taxes but are actually paying corporations to stay.

Yeah, in the real world, that's not really an option.  Trump is well aware that doing so isn't nearly enough which is why he has talked about tariffs so often.

It's a capitalist market.  That means countries should leverage their buying power and operate just like multi-national corporations, not just sit and beg for jobs or wait to get used and thrown away.  If a shopping mall can charge companies for doing business in their market-place then a country can do the same.  

You incentivise staying but you also decentivise moving.  That's the only thing that's going to actually work.



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m0ney said:
These are my fav discussions on vgchartz although I'm not knowledgeable enough to participate.


"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

Superman4 said:
Cobretti2 said:

Well they aleady do have like a 30% import tax on cars. If you push any more then all cars would cost 40-60k. Not many people will buy a car for that price.

Now that Ford and GM will be gone soon, those taxes will drop and cars will be even more cheaper.

Cars wont be cheaper, they will not pass on any savings to the consumer. I dont care how much you pay the union employees at a factory, it does not cost 60K+ to build a Cadillac or a Tahoe, they are the same chassis with different cosmetics. They want bigger bonuses and higher corporate wages.

Entry level job pays $32 an hour here at Ford. Most would be closer to $45-50 an hour with 5+ years exp.



 

 

WolfpackN64 said:
Aeolus451 said:

That's false. If that was case then they would be making even more money since the keep charging more for the same services. Costs keep rising due to a multitude of things like unions, employee benefits, prices of materials, new taxes/fees, inflation,  etc. It's a fact.  For example, those $15/hr minium wage knuckleheads don't realize they'll lose a lot of jobs if that's implemented because it would increase the cost for businesses by a considerable amount. Mcdonalds would just become automated and everyone would suffer in some sense because of that. I can't imagine what their sandwhiches would taste like if that happened. haha. People need to learn how to be more pragmatic. 

Competition between countries for business. That's never gonna stop and it's a good thing in general. 

I already gave a solution. Just reduce costs for businesses to operate and have employees. It will solve itself. 

And I already explained to you in detail why that doesn't work.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/retail/latest-study-seattles-wage-law-lifted-restaurant-pay-without-shrinking-jobs/

And maybe you should research things properly before spouting neoliberal nonsense.

..... Do you not read the articles that you source?

First of all, the new study was done by a professor from Berkeley of all schools..... A very liberal school that's been in the news not that long ago that suggests that the staff there might not be so objective on anything.

Further along in that article.

"A city-commissioned report by University of Washington researchers last year reached a more mixed conclusion.

That study said the law indeed helped to raise the hourly pay for low-wage workers.

But it also concluded that while the employment rate for such workers was better than the historical average due to the booming overall economy, the minimum-wage law itself appeared to have slightly lowered their employment rate and hours worked, relative to regional trends."

"Heidi Mann, who with her husband owns a Subway franchise near the Shoreline border, said she had seven employees, including her husband, two years ago. But she’s gradually had to let four of them go and is down to one full-timer, one part-timer and her husband, who’s working 60 hours a week and likely to take on more hours soon, she said.

Because she’s a franchisee, her Subway is considered a big business and must pay $15 an hour. “That’s why our prices are higher than the Subway in Shoreline or the mom-and-pop shop down the street,” Mann said.

She raised the prices of sandwiches an average of 86  cents to help offset the minimum-wage boost, and said she’s lost customers because of the increases."

 

It sounds like this isn't going so well. I'd like to see multiple studies done on this when the full 15 is affecting every business there for a bit. I also want to see how it affects overall hours per employee, weekly/monthly/yearly earnings etc in comparison to before the law took effect.

 




vivster said:
Mystro-Sama said:
Whats the difference if its going to China instead of Mexico? Americans still won't get the jobs right?

The fun part is, Americans wouldn't even get the jobs if it was built in the US^^

Uh, this just isn't true at all.



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Good, now those pesky Mexican immigrants will migrate to China instead of the US. Trump is so smart.