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Forums - Politics - Trump Paris Meta-Decision

 

Should Trump stay or not?

Yes, stay 119 50.42%
 
No, don't stay 102 43.22%
 
Not sure 15 6.36%
 
Total:236
Aeolus451 on 01 June 2017
Soundwave said:
Aeolus451 said:

No, we don't need to throw them under the bus. The US is not the world government and the US has already been doing it's part. The other layabouts can do their part without getting money from the US. 

The US and China have a responsibility to take a leadership position on this. They DON'T have the right to polute the only planet we have right now without any consequence, it is grossly irresponsible and unfair to the rest of the planet that may well have to deal with the consequences of their inaction. 

The US is already a leader in this and it's doing it's part but it doesn't need to be a part of an accord the senate didn't agree to.  We can still renegotiate on it to terms we can agree with.

Go pester china.



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Soundwave on 01 June 2017
Aeolus451 said:
Soundwave said:

The US and China have a responsibility to take a leadership position on this. They DON'T have the right to polute the only planet we have right now without any consequence, it is grossly irresponsible and unfair to the rest of the planet that may well have to deal with the consequences of their inaction. 

The US is already a leader in this and it's doing it's part but it doesn't need to be a part of an accord the senate didn't agree to.  We can still renegotiate on it to terms we can agree with.

Go pester china.

No, both of you two countries grow the fuck up and LEAD. That is your responsibility, you do not get to have it both ways and want to be a global superpower and then shirk perhaps the most important responsibilities to the species. 

That is a whiny little shit teenager behaves, not a grown adult. The US is not doing its fair share, and the rest of the population of the Earth and those even within the US are well within their rights to call them out on it. 



Aeolus451 on 01 June 2017
Soundwave said:
Aeolus451 said:

It's a really shitty deal for the US. Coal at the moment is jobs for a good bit of people around the world. Why not make it a bit cleaner and keep using it til have we have a clean energy that can meet our energy needs? I also don't agree with giving other countries any foreign aid over this. The tradeoff at the moment is not worth it for the US to be in the paris accord. I'm all for renegotating it but it can't cause the US the harm it does. Other countries can pay the foreign aid while India and china reduce their emissions alot quicker.

Coal employs less people than Arby's shitty restaurants

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/31/8-surprisingly-small-industries-that-employ-more-people-than-coal/?utm_term=.96bdec78d32f

Totally worth accelerating possible global warming for this tiny segment of the earth's population. Totally worth it. 

You forgot something. It's that low because of obama. It will likely double or triple without the restrictions.



Aeolus451 on 01 June 2017
Soundwave said:
Aeolus451 said:

The US is already a leader in this and it's doing it's part but it doesn't need to be a part of an accord the senate didn't agree to.  We can still renegotiate on it to terms we can agree with.

Go pester china.

No, both of you two countries grow the fuck up and LEAD. That is your responsibility, you do not get to have it both ways and want to be a global superpower and then shirk perhaps the most important responsibilities to the species. 

That is a whiny little shit teenager behaves, not a grown adult. The US is not doing its fair share, and the rest of the population of the Earth and those even within the US are well within their rights to call them out on it. 

We are leading already but just not in the way the EU wants and we're already doing our part.  Go pester china. 



method114 on 01 June 2017
Soundwave said:
method114 said:

I don't know anything about the paris agreement. What I do know is that by not agreeing to join it doesn't mean Trump doesn't care or is ignoring it. We as a country are perfecctly capable of making changes to help with climate change without having to join other countries in doing it.

As far as if it's real or not it's clearly real. The temp has fluctuated forever on this planet. At one point in time North America was covered in mile high sheets of ice all of it. We just figured out that the human race is like 12,000 years older than we originally had thought. We are learning so much it's weird to me the people who think we know everything now and we are super smart.

As for the people saying we shouldn't even risk it? Well it's easy to say that maybe where  you live. I live in Houston a large part of our economy depends on oil. When the oil industry is doing bad it effects a lot of other industries as well in and around Houston. When your seeing people lose their jobs, their homes and everything else it's not as easy to say F those people we need to prepare for a situation we know very little about.

Yes, F those people. Sorry but a tiny subset of the population of the world has no right to imperil the entire planet's future because they can't find work somewhere else or don't want to. 

That is not their right. They have had plenty of warning and lead time here to find numerous different industries to work in. 

Yes but don't be surprised when those same people say F you and your predicitions that we don't even know are true or not. No one knows how much we affect climate change. Like I said at one point NA was covered in mile high ice. Al Gore has already proven to use this fear of climate change to make tons of money and even lied. We have already seen scientist will lie for money it happened with the sugar industry. They did a study where they had 7 different groups of scientist verify another teams work. They were told beforehand that there were 7 errors in the study. Not 1 group from the study found all the errors. The most found was 5 from 1 group. 

We need to stop with this idea that scientist are infalliable. I guess I can understand why people feel that way but it wasn't until I started listening to podcast with other scientist that I realized there not as perfect as we like to think they are and make mistakes all the time.



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Soundwave on 01 June 2017
Aeolus451 said:
Soundwave said:

Coal employs less people than Arby's shitty restaurants

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/31/8-surprisingly-small-industries-that-employ-more-people-than-coal/?utm_term=.96bdec78d32f

Totally worth accelerating possible global warming for this tiny segment of the earth's population. Totally worth it. 

You forgot something. It's that low because of obama. It will likely double or triple without the restrictions.

I would debate that because the industry is losing ground beyond political reasons, but even if it was .... so WHAT? 

Why should a work force the size of nail salon workers be allowed to hold the planet's environment hostage and have such massive sway over global initiatives? 

Fuck them and fuck their shit industry that's probably going to give half of them cancer anyway. They have no right. 



Louie_86 on 01 June 2017

Coal needs to go. Its a dying and almost obsolete - not to mention contaminating - industry. Making it grow - however little it may do - is pointless. Those jobs can be saved in so many other ways. 



Wiibaron on 01 June 2017

Meanwhile you can find seashells in the desert around Phoenix AZ because it used to be UNDER the ocean. Climate change happens with or without humans.



Soundwave on 01 June 2017
method114 said:
Soundwave said:

Yes, F those people. Sorry but a tiny subset of the population of the world has no right to imperil the entire planet's future because they can't find work somewhere else or don't want to. 

That is not their right. They have had plenty of warning and lead time here to find numerous different industries to work in. 

Yes but don't be surprised when those same people say F you and your predicitions that we don't even know are true or not. No one knows how much we affect climate change. Like I said at one point NA was covered in mile high ice. Al Gore has already proven to use this fear of climate change to make tons of money and even lied. We have already seen scientist will lie for money it happened with the sugar industry. They did a study where they had 7 different groups of scientist verify another teams work. They were told beforehand that there were 7 errors in the study. Not 1 group from the study found all the errors. The most found was 5 from 1 group. 

We need to stop with this idea that scientist are infalliable. I guess I can understand why people feel that way but it wasn't until I started listening to podcast with other scientist that I realized there not as perfect as we like to think they are and make mistakes all the time.

When we have an 'extra planet' that we can go inhabit in case we screw this one up, sure THEN you go ahead and drill, rape, pillage that bitch all you want. Turn the sky black, breath in all that great coal, drill that bitch dry all you want in that case. But we DON'T have a fall back planet right now. 

That being the case, I think it's *sane* to excercise caution and restraint on the issue, err on the side of caution if there is even a chance that the science here turns out to be correct. 

Even if you're one of those religious nuts that think God will fix everything, seems to me like God doesn't give two fucks about people who don't help themselves. I think about those people drowing to death on the Titanic looked up to God and cried out "save us!", and it seems to me God response was "lulz you dumb fucks maybe should've prepared and built a few more life boats, seeya". 



IsawYoshi on 01 June 2017
Superman4 said:
IsawYoshi said:

You could say that about every single international agreement ever. It's not like a country is going to be arrested or something. But when you are part of an agreement the other parts expect you to fullfill it, at that DOES actually mean that this changes everything. Not only that, but by showing that the US is commiting to the treaty they can leverage that in talks with other countries and say "hey, we're doing something for the entire world, why don't you up your efforts." Now instead we're going to have the single most powerful country in the world on the outside, together with such world powers as syria and nicaragua. I suppose they had poor coal plant workers to take care of and europe was trying to steal their money as well.

 

What's the point about leaving if you're supposed to cut the emissions anyway? Why not stay in? Why in gods name piss of every other state and nation in the world if your going to do what you agreed to anyway?

You leave it to stop paying other countries who are doing nothing 100 Billion a year. You seem to think that companies will stop installing solar panels, consumers in general will decide that they don’t want a hybrid or electric car, solar panels for their house etc. It doesn’t work that way. The cost of installing Solar or wind is minuscule in comparison to the overall savings. Companies and people in general understand this. Gas mileage is something that is dependent on price, nothing more. If gas prices were .20 a gallon nobody would care about an electric car or how many miles per gallon it consumed. People will continue to buy LED lights etc. because they save them money, the environment is not in jeopardy because we decided to stop wasting money on other countries when we can’t even figure out how to take care of our own.

The 100 billion dollars you are talking about is a joint effort. Trump talks like america is the only one doing anything, but in the real world the other nations are contributing as well. Here's a link from the UN talking about the 100 billion dollars: http://unfccc.int/cooperation_and_support/financial_mechanism/items/2807.php

 

You seem to be putting words into my mouth, because I do not "seem to think that companies will stop installing solar panels" and so on. Of course these things will advance as time flies by, and the cheaper and better they get the more use they will see regardless of what policy trump has. However Trump has the ability to speed up this process, because by for example removing coal plants the energy prices will go a bit up, which makes solar panels and other green alternatives more viable and profitable, therefore driving sales. This needs to happen worldwide, but not all countries has the funds to do this, and this is where not only the US but the rest of the developing world has to step up and help the smaller, less fortunate nations out. The environment is already in jeopardy, and Trumps actions isn't helping anyone.