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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo: Fire Emblem Switch is “going to be looking beautiful with great graphics”

vivster on 01 June 2017
padib said:
vivster said:

The thing is, there really is no other way than to push graphics. You might not realize it but it's not like the consoles are so powerful that devs have to come up with new technologies to reach the limit. It's actually the absolute opposite. Hardware is still too weak to come even close to the vision developers intend and they have to put in a lot of work to create visual workarounds. This wouldn't be necessary with more hardware power available. Devs on all platforms never have enough hardware resources so I think it's ludicrous to intentionally go the other way. There is a reason why so many 3rd parties are avoiding Nintendo and one big point is the hardware.

You see BOTW as beautiful and I see a lot of wasted potential. The first thing that greets you is a washed out screen thanks to sub 1080p and badly upscaled image. Don't you think the developers would've liked to have a much sharper image that not only looks good on a tiny handheld screen but also on a big TV?

Then I start to move and notice the stutter. That tells me that the developers had to compromise a smooth gaming experience for a minimum of graphical fidelity, yet they couldn't even reach 1080p with that compromise. As a developer I'd feel like shit that not only do I have to compromise my vision but also that it isn't even enough.

Then I go outside into the world and notice all the little visual workarounds to decrease workloads like reduced textures, flat 2d models, static shadows and certain visual tricks that try to emulate actual animation. Tricks that cost time and effort and can cause bugs. Things that wouldn't be necessary if they had the power to do the things the way they want.

BOTW looks good for what it is because talented devs had to power through and work with compromises. To me that's a pretty sad picture in my mind. Don't you think the devs of Arms would've liked to have a sharper picture in this highly competitive game? Or maybe be able to deliver 60fps in 4 player mode?

Slow and outdated hardware is a detriment to games and their developers. So I find it hard to take people reveling in that fact.

BTW I'm including all consoles and even PC in the "hardware too weak" statement.

I would also like to note that the visual fidelty is not among the reasons why I became to hate the game. It just accelerated it.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you have to remember that the switch is also portable. Maybe next gen all the workarounds you're talking about might not be necessary anymore.

I just sense that the point where pushing hardware won't be needed as much is on the cusp of being real for Nintendo consoles. Would you say that next gen or the one after is a fair expectation to say that we would have 1080p 60fps with no need for workarounds in order to have very nice games?

Of course it's a handheld but Nintendo chose specifically to use older hardware for it that they even had to clock down to work. A 30-50% increase in power would've been doable for a reasonable price. But they went for profit margin instead. I also think it's a good thing that they unified the hardware. Well, good for them because they hate porting their games so much. At least like this they won't be able to withhold so many games from us by making them exclusive to a handheld device.

I expect them to reach a very good compromise for hardware performance next gen, even if they go again with outdated hardware. Most Nintendo games don't look or run bad but, all they need is a bit more power to smooth out the experience. I don't expect photorealism of Nintendo games but I would at least like the games to be sharp and responsive. Things that are realized with zero additional dev input and just come down to hardware.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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KingofTrolls on 01 June 2017
vivster said:

-snip-

so many words to say "Im angry because I cant play Nin games in 4k60FPS...



Jumpin on 01 June 2017
vivster said:
padib said:

Sniff, it's a tech demo. Aren't you tired of hating?

You say that as if bragging about graphical fidelity is something negative.

What he is saying is that you, calm and politely pointing out the inaccuracy of his post, is a hate crime against him. He is wondering if you are tired of all your hatred :P



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

vivster on 01 June 2017
KingofTrolls said:
vivster said:

-snip-

so many words to say "Im angry because I cant play Nin games in 4k60FPS...

I said "sad" actually. I'm not dependant on Nintendo. I'd have no problem if they shut down today and never do Nintendo games again, there are enough great games on the market.

It's just very sad to see good games and developers being tortured.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

KingofTrolls on 01 June 2017
vivster said:

 I'd have no problem if they shut down today and never do Nintendo games again,.

It's just very sad to see good games  being tortured.

Sorry i just.. could not write anything...



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irstupid on 01 June 2017
Nuvendil said:
I hope so. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the nature of Fire Emblem is such that it should be a tech showpiece on every platform it is on graphically. There's no excuse for the super basic look of FE on 3DS.

I agree. Well if they keep the game the same that is. You know grid based, turn based action. I mean they basically could make a cutscene for every single possible enemy interaction and then just have that play when you battle. Thus all battles could look essentially like a full cg cutscene or anime cutscene or whatever fancy graphics style they want.

The actual fighting is not user controlled. You click the attack you want and watch a "movie" so to speak. So they can make the graphics more impressive than a game that you control. 

I'm more excited at the prospect of 100% voice acted for all text, support convo's, ect. That is what I want. Graphics are fine enough on the 3DS games to enjoy. Obviously they will be better on the Switch, but again full VA is more important to me in FE. It's the 100's of hours of support convos that flesh out every character and their relationship with one another that makes FE games so much more addictive to me than any other SRPG like it.

Nuvendil said:
Soundwave said:

Yeah, I'm thinking this in conjunction with other comments from them means fully 3D Fire Emblem with different gameplay ... still tactical but more ... mainstream-ish, maybe like what Square has done with the Final Fantasy games (no longer strict turn based battles). 

I doubt they will change the gameplay in battles, but they may spice it up with other elements like the dungeon exploration in Echoes.  And they could have it be full 3D and still have the tactical battle aspect.  They could do away with the grid system however, making troop positioning more organic.  I mean, look at the recent Total War game campaign maps, you can get pretty dang detailed on zoomed out tactical maps.  And the arenas where these fights play out can be reallly detailed too.

I woudl think the better example woudl be from their own game. You know S.T.E.A.M.  That had you walk around the actual battlfield all 3D like. That could have been a test demo in a way for teh future of Fire Emblem gameplay.



h2ohno on 01 June 2017

The last time I remember Nintendo bragging about how great a single game's graphics were was Reggie calling Twilight Princess 'the most beautiful game Nintendo has ever made' at E3 2006.



LipeJJ on 01 June 2017
RolStoppable said:
This is developed by Intelligent Systems, so I don't believe these claims. Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn looked more like Dreamcast than GameCube, so about the only thing that I expect is that it will be the best looking Fire Emblem game to date, but the bar for that hasn't been set high. All of the 3DS games have basic and blurry textures for the environment, so they aren't graphical showcases either.

Not that I put much stock in graphics anyway, so this doesn't bother me. The issue is raising expectations to a level that doesn't seem realistic in light of the developers' history.

Maybe it was a budget thing? Remember FE was at risk of dying before Awakening. Now that the series is a guaranteed decent success at least, they probably rose its budget.

Besides, they made pretty looking Paper Mario titles before.



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won

LipeJJ on 01 June 2017
RolStoppable said:
LipeJJ said:

Maybe it was a budget thing? Remember FE was at risk of dying before Awakening. Now that the series is a guaranteed decent success at least, they probably rose its budget.

Besides, they made pretty looking Paper Mario titles before.

No, it's not a budget thing. By your logic we should have seen Fire Emblem Fates with a notably improved 3D engine, because the 3DS is capable of much more than what can be seen in Awakening.

Paper Mario has the benefit of its art style. The characters aren't polygon models, so that saves processing power and is easier to make look good.

You know it doesn't work like that, right? Why on earth would they make an entirely new 3D engine for just one or two games at the final years of an extremely limited portable? Doesn't make sense. Better use 1 engine per generation. Btw, I hope they are using Unreal Engine 4, which would make the game looking good much easier. I guess we shall see how it looks in less than 2 weeks (probably).



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won

LipeJJ on 01 June 2017
RolStoppable said:
LipeJJ said:

You know it doesn't work like that, right? Why on earth would they make an entirely new 3D engine for just one or two games at the final years of an extremely limited portable? Doesn't make sense. Better use 1 engine per generation. Btw, I hope they are using Unreal Engine 4, which would make the game looking good much easier. I guess we shall see how it looks in less than 2 weeks (probably).

That's why I am talking about an improved engine, not an entirely new one. It can't be that hard to improve the quality of ground textures and character models when Awakening wasn't pushing the 3DS hardware at all.

Yeah, in that case I can agree with you. They should've improved the engine a bit at least. But since the new game will be on a new system (and a much more capable one) I guess they will have no choice... they will either have to create a considerably better engine, or use an existing one, which would be better imo, since it would probably save time and resources. Let's hope for the best.

Anyway, this is the Musou Fire Emblem. If it looks anywhere near that, it would be amazing. 



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won