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Forums - Nintendo - Digital Foundry Looks At the Future Of the Nintendo-Nvidia Relationship

Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

Again, if we talk about games doesnt matter fact that phones or tablets have 1080p or 1440p resolution, because game's doesnt use it, games on phones or tablets dont run at native resolution, you will hardly find any game that runs at higher resolution than 720p in any case despite screen is 1440p.

You do not need a game to run at a native resolution to see gains from it.

Miyamotoo said:

Of Course there is excuse for 720p compared to 1080p, and thats battery life, Switch battery life would be even shorter if screen is 1080p because you would need GPU to run at much higher clock, and 1080p resolution screen use more power than 720p screen.

No. And again there are plenty of prior examples where a higher resolution display has actually used less energy than a lower resolution display. Go take a look at Samsungs own transition from 1080P panels to 1440P panels in it's flagships. You might learn something.

Panel technology and backlight technology has an overall larger influence on battery life than pixel counts.

Besides, if power consumption was such a massive concern *rolls eyes* Nintendo would have chosen a more energy efficient chip. Like I dunno. A Pascal based Tegra maybe?

Yes you need, you gain nothing if you have 1440p screen and 720p game, Switch would gain nothing from 1080p screen if games are still 720p. 

Its not point only only about screen, you do realise that games that run at higher resolution requires stronger hardware that uses more power.

Lol for *rolls eyes*,  power consumption and battery life are reasons why in handheld mode Switch GPU runs at 307MHz compared to 768MHz in docked mode. Like I wrote, easiest for Nintendo would be that game runs at same resolution at portable mode and dock mode instead they need to make game to run in different resolution in portable mode and at different resolution at in docked mode, Nintendo could easily put 1080p screen on Switch and they could run MK8D at 1080p in handheld mode also, but in that case batery would below well below 2 hours instead of around 3 hours.

 Pascal Tegra couldnt be done on time for Switch, but most likely future iteration of Switch will use Pascal Tegra, 20nm Tegra X1 was most  efficient chip available when Nintendo was finishing Switch.



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Miyamotoo said:

Yes you need, you gain nothing if you have 1440p screen and 720p game, Switch would gain nothing from 1080p screen if games are still 720p.

False.
Just because the game isn't rendering at 1440P, doesn't mean thing like UI elements can't.

You also have this thing called upscaling and post processing. FMV/Pre-rendered sequences can take advantage of higher resolutions as well.
Plus one would hope that the Switch gets Apps/Browser support which can benefit from higher resolutions to resolve cleaner text and other elements.

Miyamotoo said:

Its not point only only about screen, you do realise that games that run at higher resolution requires stronger hardware that uses more power.

And you still are not getting it. I'm not sure if you are not reading my post correctly or I am not conveying myself sufficiently.

A more modern, more powerful, more energy efficient SoC would use less energy than the Switch does currently.
A more modern, higher quality, higher resolution display can use less energy than the Switch's current display.

Ergo, we could have had higher resolutions and less power consumption and more performance for better graphics. Case closed.

Miyamotoo said:

power consumption and battery life are reasons why in handheld mode Switch GPU runs at 307MHz compared to 768MHz in docked mode.

 Really? We have been over this. A more modern SoC can provide power saving and more performance.
Whatever clockrate Maxwell based Tegra operates at is ultimately irrellevant.
 

 

Miyamotoo said:

 Pascal Tegra couldnt be done on time for Switch, but most likely future iteration of Switch will use Pascal Tegra, 20nm Tegra X1 was most  efficient chip available when Nintendo was finishing Switch.

 

 

Rubbish. nVidia was demonstrating Volta based Tegra before the Switch launched. That is Pascal Tegra's successor.
It's not like Nintendo is building the Switch from scratch... It's using off-the-shelf-components.

nVidia had working Tegra X2 silicon in 2015. It revealed such Silicon in January, 2016.

The Switch launched much later than that. It's using old technology.

Switch could have been faster, better graphics quality and have a longer battery life, but Nintendo decided to cheap out on componentry, that is all there is to it.




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Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yes you need, you gain nothing if you have 1440p screen and 720p game, Switch would gain nothing from 1080p screen if games are still 720p.

False.
Just because the game isn't rendering at 1440P, doesn't mean thing like UI elements can't.

You also have this thing called upscaling and post processing. FMV/Pre-rendered sequences can take advantage of higher resolutions as well.
Plus one would hope that the Switch gets Apps/Browser support which can benefit from higher resolutions to resolve cleaner text and other elements.

Miyamotoo said:

Its not point only only about screen, you do realise that games that run at higher resolution requires stronger hardware that uses more power.

And you still are not getting it. I'm not sure if you are not reading my post correctly or I am not conveying myself sufficiently.

A more modern, more powerful, more energy efficient SoC would use less energy than the Switch does currently.
A more modern, higher quality, higher resolution display can use less energy than the Switch's current display.

Ergo, we could have had higher resolutions and less power consumption and more performance for better graphics. Case closed.

Miyamotoo said:

power consumption and battery life are reasons why in handheld mode Switch GPU runs at 307MHz compared to 768MHz in docked mode.

 Really? We have been over this. A more modern SoC can provide power saving and more performance.
Whatever clockrate Maxwell based Tegra operates at is ultimately irrellevant.
 

 

Miyamotoo said:

 Pascal Tegra couldnt be done on time for Switch, but most likely future iteration of Switch will use Pascal Tegra, 20nm Tegra X1 was most  efficient chip available when Nintendo was finishing Switch.

 

 

 Rubbish. nVidia was demonstrating Volta based Tegra before the Switch launched. That is Pascal Tegra's successor.
It's not like Nintendo is building the Switch from scratch... It's using off-the-shelf-components.

nVidia had working Tegra X2 silicon in 2015. It revealed such Silicon in January, 2016.

The Switch launched much later than that. It's using old technology.

Switch could have been faster, better graphics quality and have a longer battery life, but Nintendo decided to cheap out on componentry, that is all there is to it.

So on 6.2" screen game would be run at 720p but we would have UI elements of 1080p!? :D That literally doesn't change anything when game itself is still 720p. Upscaling will not change fact that game is running at native 720p resolution, if I play 720p game on my 1080p TV, that games still renders at 720p not at 1080p. Switch doesn't have any applications.

Less power hungry screen still wouldn't change fact that Switch would still us much more power in order to run 1080p games than is its using now in handheld mode.

Of Course that more modern chip will be more efficient, I talking about current chip Switch is using.

You dont know what are you talking about, we still dont have any device that uses Tegra X2, even Nvidias onw Shield for 2017. is using Tegra X1. You need to have chip totally ready, tested with good yield,with good strong production capacity for new chip, and already produced millions of chips months before mass production of Switch itelf starts. It's very obvious that X2 chip in millions couldn't be ready on time for Switch.



Miyamotoo said:

So on 6.2" screen game would be run at 720p but we would have UI elements of 1080p!? :D That literally doesn't change anything when game itself is still 720p. Upscaling will not change fact that game is running at native 720p resolution, if I play 720p game on my 1080p TV, that games still renders at 720p not at 1080p. Switch doesn't have any applications.

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post because there's so much wrong here already.

UI elements being rendered at a higher resolution DOES change something, obviously it changes the clarity of the UI and Text, this is something that is done in quite a few games. Especially on Pro, UI rendered at native 4k while the rest of the game is rendered at a lower resolution.

"Upscaling will not change fact that game is running at native 720p resolution." You're basically saying here that upscaling doesn't do a thing, the entire point of upscaling is making lower-resolution content look better on a higher resolution display.

as for application Eshop and the OS would benefit, and it'll be getting a browser soon enough, and hopefully many more applications.



The advances made to the Switch will improve performance and energy consumption but not exclude early Switch adopters from games just because of something like a faster load time. Multiple resolutions may be possible but at what cost to the company? Nintendo will stick to paths that have the most potential for profit or user-base growth.



Feel free to check out my stream on twitch 

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Barkley said:
Miyamotoo said:

So on 6.2" screen game would be run at 720p but we would have UI elements of 1080p!? :D That literally doesn't change anything when game itself is still 720p. Upscaling will not change fact that game is running at native 720p resolution, if I play 720p game on my 1080p TV, that games still renders at 720p not at 1080p. Switch doesn't have any applications.

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post because there's so much wrong here already.

UI elements being rendered at a higher resolution DOES change something, obviously it changes the clarity of the UI and Text, this is something that is done in quite a few games. Especially on Pro, UI rendered at native 4k while the rest of the game is rendered at a lower resolution.

"Upscaling will not change fact that game is running at native 720p resolution." You're basically saying here that upscaling doesn't do a thing, the entire point of upscaling is making lower-resolution content look better on a higher resolution display.

as for application Eshop and the OS would benefit, and it'll be getting a browser soon enough, and hopefully many more applications.

Free to read rest of my post because nothing is wrong in that 1st paragraph.

We talking about 6.2" screen, how would 1080p UI elements helped compared to 720p UI elements on 6.2" screen!? In any case Nintendo would never do something like that (look at 3rd paragraph down). 

720p game on 1080p screen is still 720p game despite 1080p screen. If you compare MK8 from Wii U on 1080p screen and MK8D from Switch on 1080p screen, you will see clear difference, that beacuse MK8 is 720p game while MK8D is 1080p game.

You do realise that hole Switch OS, including eShop even in docked mode is running at 720p!?



Miyamotoo said:
Barkley said:

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post because there's so much wrong here already.

UI elements being rendered at a higher resolution DOES change something, obviously it changes the clarity of the UI and Text, this is something that is done in quite a few games. Especially on Pro, UI rendered at native 4k while the rest of the game is rendered at a lower resolution.

"Upscaling will not change fact that game is running at native 720p resolution." You're basically saying here that upscaling doesn't do a thing, the entire point of upscaling is making lower-resolution content look better on a higher resolution display.

as for application Eshop and the OS would benefit, and it'll be getting a browser soon enough, and hopefully many more applications.

Free to read rest of my post because nothing is wrong in that 1st paragraph.

We talking about 6.2" screen, how would 1080p UI elements helped compared to 720p UI elements on 6.2" screen!? In any case Nintendo would never do something like that, 

720p game on 1080p screen is still 720p games despite 1080p screen. If you compare MK8 from Wii U on 1080p screen and MK8D from Switch on 1080p screen, you will see clear difference, that beacuse MK8 is 720p game while MK8D is 1080p game.

You do realise that hole Switch OS, including eShop even in docked mode is running at 720p!?


Yes you will be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on 6.2" screen, just as most people can with any smart phone.

You're still making the claim in your second paragraph that Upscaling is literally useless? A completely fruitless endeavor? NICE

No I didn't realise that, that's a shame.



Barkley said:
Miyamotoo said:

Free to read rest of my post because nothing is wrong in that 1st paragraph.

We talking about 6.2" screen, how would 1080p UI elements helped compared to 720p UI elements on 6.2" screen!? In any case Nintendo would never do something like that, 

720p game on 1080p screen is still 720p games despite 1080p screen. If you compare MK8 from Wii U on 1080p screen and MK8D from Switch on 1080p screen, you will see clear difference, that beacuse MK8 is 720p game while MK8D is 1080p game.

You do realise that hole Switch OS, including eShop even in docked mode is running at 720p!?


Yes you will be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on 6.2" screen, just as most people can with any smart phone.

You're still making the claim in your second paragraph that Upscaling is literally useless? A completely fruitless endeavor? NICE

No I didn't realise that, that's a shame.

Remember, we talking only about UI elements not about hole games, and Ul elements wouldn't change almost nothing, In any case Nintendo would never do something like that (when even eShop runing at 720p even in docked mode) and definitely UI elements would be reason for Nintendo to choose 1080p screen in any case.

720p game on 720p screen or on 1080p screen will look exatly same, thats point. But 1080p game definitely want look same on 720p screen and on 1080p screen.

I know that and I know what I talking about, and yes, that's a shame.



Miyamotoo said:

720p game on 720p screen or on 1080p screen will look exatly same

Read: "Upscaling is a useless thing, so many companies using it yet it does nothing."

I don't have anything else to comment, if you think upscaling a game rendered at 720p to a 1080p display does nothing, and that a higher resolution for UI is pointless then I won't try and convince you otherwise.



Random_Matt said:
2019? Way to piss off consumers, nice.

People didn't get pissed off enough with DSi and New 3DS, even with exclusive titles for the upgraded model. Same for PS4 Pro. Only forum nerds complained, but sales weren't affected.