Theyre charging for PS+ directly as a result of Microsoft charging people for XBL. 

And that makes it ok?.

You boiled down my arguement and took everything out of context. Ludicrous was complaining about Sony placing online behind a paywall. He brought this up in a thread about Microsoft being shady. It's silly to me to chastise one company for something that both do, especially when the former picked up the habit from the latter.

What Sony added to the subscription model actually improved it by including the free monthly games.

The games are not free if your paying a subscription for them. You also dont get to keep them when you stop paying. This still doesnt change the fact you are now forced to pay to play online on a not so great network service. Why couldnt Sony of kept the way it was with PS3? Free online and get games if you sign up to PS+.

So once again, what Sony added to the subscription model improved it by including the games every month. You didn't really dispute this so I'm not sure what exactly you're asking here. Why did it change at the start of this gen? You already know why.

Quality is Irrelevent in this discussion and subjective to the individual.

Not really. You only have to look at the games Sony was offering when PS+ was a subscription for "Games" instead of a sub to "play online" with some indie games trown in. Anyone can see the qaulity of games have gone down no point in denying it or trying to put it into an "Opinion" thing. Its a Fact...

Quality is Irrelevent here because it's gonna be arguing over opinions. It's not a "fact", it's completely your opinion 😜 Get over it. You don't speak for others to say what's quality or what isn't. To me something like CoD Infinite Warfare would be complete and utter garbage despite costing tens to hundreds of millions to make. Quality. Is. Subjective.

I would genuinely rather take games like Abzu or Alien Nation over stuff like mass effect which I've already played, purchased and beaten in the past.

Thats good for you but it still doesnt change the fact that Mass Effect is a much more higher rated and higher quality game then both of them you mentioned. Its also ok for you since you played it, id sooner get a game i didnt play then one i did too. But if you didnt play Mass Effect can you honestly say that you would sooner Alien Nation or abzu over it?.

I would be more interested in Abzu or Alien Nation still because I dig their art style/genre elements d: I also appreciate that they're both almost a decade newer than mass effect. But that's a moot point

Also indie=/=trash. In fact the indies given out on + are high quality and do a great job at giving exposure to devs that might otherwise get passed on due to visibility (too many games release on PSN, it's easy to get buried). But go ahead and keep spin spin spinnin'. Seems like daddy Phil is teaching you something.

This is just gold. You accuse him of learning from "Daddy Phil" but it seems to off went over you head your doing the same thing..

"Well ya know its great we get only mostly Indie games on PS+ instead of them AAA games that everyone is playing, it brings exposure!".

Sure, I am spinning. It's terrible that we get genuinely good or highly acclaimed smaller digital titles. In reality they should be games that the largest majority already owned in the past and paid for. That will really help build the quality of our service. Especially with all the new consumers entering our ecosystem. On a real note both services get indies, both get AAA and once more, it's all subjective. Grass ain't really looking greener on the other side, I must admit.

Because from my experience a 40gb game downloads in under an hour for me,

What kind of connection you got? 1GB??. i know on my 100MB connection it takes longer then 1 hour to download a 20GB game from PSN nevermind 40GB.

Nope, I have somewhere around 150mbit, definitely under an hour to download a full game for me. If you have network issues I can make some suggestions to you over PM regarding what ports to forward and a few other tweaks or settings

I can't remember the last time I got disconnected from any game nor do I recall the last time PSN actually went out for me.

This doesnt change the fact it happens. But then this is a problem for all online services not just PSN, but lets not act like PSN doesnt also have them problems.

I agree. From my own experience, the problems with PSN are widely overstated though. The way some users talk about it, you'd make it seem like they had far more intimate knowledge about the back end of these networks than they do.

Well its the truth most of the games they are giving away with PSN+ over the last year have been pure garbage.  Of course  I'm pretty sure your are clueless when it comes to XBox live also, since you are clueless when it comes to politics, history and simple word definitions.