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Forums - Politics Discussion - To those who think that the USA's killing spree in the middle east is OK.........

contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

You do realize that they're humans? It's absurd to tell people to stop humanizing humans. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like being blown up and killed just because there was some guy hostile to a foreign government.

Yeah, but its creating false equivalency between them and people in the west. It's not equal. Humanizing them doesn't serve any purpose to our own interests. It's trying to protect the interest of another group to our detriment and that's not right.

Yes, because they committed the heinous crime of being born in the Middle East, which by the way is something they have no control over.



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It's okay if it happens in war.



VGPolyglot said:
Zekkyou said:
I don't know enough about the situation over there (or recent events relating to it) to comment on whether it's justified or not, but if you're interested in having a discussion with those who do think it is, you'd be best off not framing it as the "murder" of innocents. Constructive discussions require a degree of good faith from both sides. People can be wrong, but it's rare for them to be actively evil. If they believe something, there's almost always an underlying reason as to why they feel that way. You can't change someone's position until you understand how they ended up at it.

Uhh, the United States has murdered innocents:

-snip-

It's a matter of entering a discussion in good faith. As i already said, i don't know much about the situation over there, but many don't seem to think the US government is actively aiming to kill innocents. Innocents have died in effectively ever major war ever fraught, yet i expect most can think of at least a few in which they think one side or another was justified. Whose right here? I have no idea. What i do know is that if you want to have a constrictive discussion, skipping to 'my opponents are murder supporting monsters' isn't useful. Wording is important when dealing with delicate topics, as it sets the tone for the rest of the discussion.



Eagle367 said:

What the hell goes through your head? How can you justify the murder of innocents? You talk about war zones and collateral damage like we are not talking about humans rather inanimate or worthless objects. When things get destroyed that's collateral damage but when innocent humans die that's not. But then you forget about USA drone strikes in Pakistan which is not a war zone and the USA has no damn business being in the airfield of a sovereign nation and no one asked them to be. Then you talk about Syria as if the USA needs to be there when its clearly not the case. You say if USA does nothing then Daesh influence will spread but forget that a syrian army exists and a leader and the USA is being a thorn in its side instead of helping it fight terrorists and actively wants to kill the leader which will further destabilize Syria but USA doesn't care. They are not wanted nor needed there. The USA also supports the terrorists in Syria but calls them rebels. There are attacks by rebels which are war crimes but the USA and its media cover it up by saying Assad's government did it just like back in Iraq when the UN told the world there were no WMDs in Iraq but  USA invaded anyway without a care for truth or reality. Now look at Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan as compared to 30-40 years ago when USA hadn't even thought about attacking them.You say civilians have to die in a war but it looks like you feel nothing when each month USA kills by the thousands many civilians but are all over the web tweeting about an attack in France that killed less than a hundred people. One idiot even talked about civilians not being civilians but terrorists in disguise. So, what goes through your head? How much brainwashed are you?

For western people there are 1st grade people. Frome USA and Western Europe. Where every life is important. 2nd grade like china/japan/russia/east europe, which is like well, they go on two feet and speak, wow. And 3rd grade, which are from Africa/arab cohntries and so on.

So huge terroristic act is 2 europeans killed. Or 50 russians. Or 2-3 thousands arabs, who cares.

Western society is still deeply racist abd xenophobic inside. Its clearly seen here or in comments to bbc/cnn/nyt.



VGPolyglot said:
contestgamer said:

Yeah, but its creating false equivalency between them and people in the west. It's not equal. Humanizing them doesn't serve any purpose to our own interests. It's trying to protect the interest of another group to our detriment and that's not right.

Yes, because they committed the heinous crime of being born in the Middle East, which by the way is something they have no control over.

Yeah, but that is what it is. Being born in certain parts of the world, in certain cultures often also comes with baggage, such as negative opinions about gays, sexist ideals, feelings (and laws) of religious supremacy and more. So although they're people, they're not people that I want to defend. A casualty in the west is worse than a casualty over there and so I'd prefer the war to be fought there, than it be fought here. Humanizing those people doesn't help us win the war.



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SpokenTruth said:
contestgamer said:

Yeah, but its creating false equivalency between them and people in the west. It's not equal. Humanizing them doesn't serve any purpose to our own interests. It's trying to protect the interest of another group to our detriment and that's not right.

Did you just say some peoples lives are of greater value than others?

Your mentality is why war perpetuates.  That apathy is the catalyst for fear, animosity and hate. 

OK, so is Hitlers life equal to Ghandhis? 



Final-Fan said:
Whether or not it's deserved, chemical weapons are seen as especially vile in the West. You can massacre people with guns or swords and people will say it's wrong, but kill the same number with mustard gas and you get Tomahawk missiles to the face. To be fair, I believe that the collateral damage you decry is a lot less avoidable when chemical weapons are being used.

From what I've heard, the rebels that the US and other Western nations are sympathetic to have not been using chemical weapons but the Assad regime is. Non-favored groups such as ISIS have used them occasionally, probably at the same rate that they get their hands on some -- but the mainstream rebels have certainly been in a position for the last few years to acquire and use them if they were inclined to, but (AFAIK) haven't.

Eagle, what is your position on the issue that I have described above?

That's the media spin. Assad allegedly uses chemical weapons because they can't definitively support it. Some sources that are not sold out like the western media say its actually the rebels not Assad using the chemical weapons. That is my position. I don't knwo whether Assad used it or the rebels but I am not going to believe the lies that the west spews out. Remember how the USA said there were WMDs in Iraq. Where were they? Its the same situation with the USA making stuff up. Now I am not saying that that's what happened but it is more likely in my opinion that the rebels were the ones using the chemical weapons with the backing of USA



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Seems you don't see ISIS as a real enemy or threat. Which sort of makes your whole post a whine about something you don't understand. We are trying to iradicate ISIS from the planet. ISIS choses where they operate from. They purposely either gather around civilians or try to hide amongst them. If the Syrian people[or Iraqi, or other places ISIS is] would stand up and fight them, the US and UN/world wouldn't have to do the work. But as you see from video, the refugees are loaded with fighting age men who are leaving instead of fighting for their cities/countries against an invading enemy. In the next decade it will be a even bigger problem when countries like the US stop buying oil from the ME because they are making their own energy more and more. The ME will become a poor 3rd world area with a handful of rich Kings amongst millions of have nothing but sand to eat. Then ISIS will just take over the whole area. They have to be killed NOW.



contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, because they committed the heinous crime of being born in the Middle East, which by the way is something they have no control over.

Yeah, but that is what it is. Being born in certain parts of the world, in certain cultures often also comes with baggage, such as negative opinions about gays, sexist ideals, feelings (and laws) of religious supremacy and more. So although they're people, they're not people that I want to defend. A casualty in the west is worse than a casualty over there and so I'd prefer the war to be fought there, than it be fought here. Humanizing those people doesn't help us win the war.

Do you not agree that Islamic terrorists believing that non-Muslim lives are unimportant and dispensible compared to Muslims is a bad thing? If so, you're being hypocriticial as advocating in essence the exact same thing.



Wiibaron said:
Seems you don't see ISIS as a real enemy or threat. Which sort of makes your whole post a whine about something you don't understand. We are trying to iradicate ISIS from the planet. ISIS choses where they operate from. They purposely either gather around civilians or try to hide amongst them. If the Syrian people[or Iraqi, or other places ISIS is] would stand up and fight them, the US and UN/world wouldn't have to do the work. But as you see from video, the refugees are loaded with fighting age men who are leaving instead of fighting for their cities/countries against an invading enemy. In the next decade it will be a even bigger problem when countries like the US stop buying oil from the ME because they are making their own energy more and more. The ME will become a poor 3rd world area with a handful of rich Kings amongst millions of have nothing but sand to eat. Then ISIS will just take over the whole area. They have to be killed NOW.

Uhh, they already do that. The SAA and the Kurds are composed of Muslims, and they're the ones mainly fighting ISIS.