Forums - Gaming Discussion - Horizon budget is at least 45 million Euro, 250 dev team

Turkish said:
irstupid said:

Studio's aren't closing down becaue most all games are owned by like a handful of stuidioes. You know the giants, Sony, EA, Nintendo, Microsoft.

Everyone else has been brought down to "indie status", or they rely compeltely on funding from the big giants. You know like how platinum games is always needing 100% funding for their games and is always then forced to tell their fans that its not up to them which console gets their game.

That is why people love indies so much these days. Because that market is like the market of old. You have hundreds of new games coming out in all types of genres and playstyles and art styles, ect. In teh AAA market, you wait around for holiday seasno to come and buy you annual 20+ million dollar budgetted game.

So I take it you dont own a PS4, because on the PS4, we get AA and AAA games all year round. Just recently Nioh, Yakuza, Gravity Rush and the list goes on and on.

Yeah, it's clear he's not been updated on the PS4's releases.



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Intrinsic said:
superchunk said:
Why is the responses to my post focused on this one game vs the overall trend?

Yes, this game looks good and has hype that will make it individually profitable. However, how many other games that pushed graphical boundaries lost money when the same game could have been lower graphically and been profitable?

Yes, this has been a trend since PS360 (and technically even before). However, since PS360 how many game devs have gone under due to this trend?

I also don't see how this game being made at 720p vs 1080p vs 4K is making the game itself discretely better or mor enjoyable or more value packed as a game. I'm pretty sure people playing this game on TVs that only output those resolutions will all have the same enjoyment of the same experience.

Because you have bias written all over everything you say and honestly just pull out some shit out of thing air to push a narrative.......

What kinda bulshit is that about games like horizon being why the industry will collapse and this silly talk about graphics and high budgets.

Then what will you say about this?

In a recent Nintendo shareholder’s meeting, Shigeru Miyamoto clarified the size of the development team on Zelda: Breath of the Wild but that it will also need to sell around 2 million copies to break even on its development costs.

Here, read it for yourself.....

So thats a sub 1080p game. It needs to sell at least twice as much as horizon to even break even. 

So in order to put superchunk in his place you link an article that echoes his sentiments about rising development budgets posing a problem?



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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RolStoppable said:

So in order to put superchunk in his place you link an article that echoes his sentiments about rising development budgets posing a problem?

You should read his post again.....

he clearly referenced the push for better looking games and higher rez t be the main driver to these high prices and singled out budgets like these as to why game development will fail.

I showed him a game that isn't doing any of the things he pointed out and yet still has a higher budget.

Its easy for a lot of people to look at games today and say this or that is why they are expensive but most just ignore the fact that maybe thats just what it costs to make a game today. And that that costs isn't due to some mad craze to just have more pixels and better graphics but that its simply were the industry is today and as always will adjust. I mean you can outsource game art and asset development to other companies today for crying out loud! Like we have "asset" farms right now. Things change.

Anyways..... I know better than to get into an argement with you... so lets just agreee to disagree here and now.



superchunk said:
Why is the responses to my post focused on this one game vs the overall trend?

Yes, this game looks good and has hype that will make it individually profitable. However, how many other games that pushed graphical boundaries lost money when the same game could have been lower graphically and been profitable?

Yes, this has been a trend since PS360 (and technically even before). However, since PS360 how many game devs have gone under due to this trend?

I also don't see how this game being made at 720p vs 1080p vs 4K is making the game itself discretely better or mor enjoyable or more value packed as a game. I'm pretty sure people playing this game on TVs that only output those resolutions will all have the same enjoyment of the same experience.

Different people value different things. For me, graphics (and by extension image quality) help me become immersed in a game's world, which directly effects my enjoyment. Good graphics don't make a bad game good, but they do make good games better for me. I wouldn't have invested so heavily in PC gaming if that wasn't the case, nor would i currently own a PS4 Pro.

As i mentioned in my previous post, 4k seems like a good compromise to your argument. The industry is not going to stop pushing tech, but 4k gives it a good resource dump. It's considerably cheaper than the alternative, while also easily marketable.



Nautilus said:
I know it wasnt in full production in 2011, but good lord, games are taking way too much time to make nowadays.But yeah, hyped about this game.I personally plan to get one game in march, and im torn betwenn this game and Nier.

I think you should get Horizon, it's a far bigger experience from what i've seen of both games and most likely will be the better game of the two. Plus people are pretty hell bent on spoiling the game from what i've heard so you might want to beat it before you come across a spoiler (if that bothers you).



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Turkish said:
Interesting that GG was able to make a game on a scale of Witcher 3 with less people and a smaller budget! I also like that Horizon has much more variety in environments, from snowey mountains to forests to grand canyon type areas. W3 felt almost the same the whole game until Blood and Wine.

If you hire cheap Chinese labour it's not that hard... 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

That's pretty expensive for an exclusive.
Almost on the same scale as AAA multiplats, but hey I can see where the budget went. Looks good.



Intrinsic said:

Because you have bias written all over everything you say and honestly just pull out some shit out of thing air to push a narrative.......

What kinda bulshit is that about games like horizon being why the industry will collapse and this silly talk about graphics and high budgets.

Then what will you say about this?

In a recent Nintendo shareholder’s meeting, Shigeru Miyamoto clarified the size of the development team on Zelda: Breath of the Wild but that it will also need to sell around 2 million copies to break even on its development costs.

Here, read it for yourself.....

So thats a sub 1080p game. It needs to sell at least twice as much as horizon to even break even. 

 I don't believe I said its only nonNintendo devs doing this. I think that is your bias, not mine. It also fits my narrative just fine. My focus is to not push graphics but instead spend time improving tools to reduce costs. BOTW should not require 2MM sales to break even just as Horizon should not.



Turkish said:

Game was in pre-production on a team of 20 for 3 years starting in 2011, after KZSF launched in late 2013, entire studio worked on it. Plus 100 devs in China who created assets from artwork and concepts.

 

The future is here! Outsourcing is just one click away.



superchunk said:

 I don't believe I said its only nonNintendo devs doing this. I think that is your bias, not mine. It also fits my narrative just fine. My focus is to not push graphics but instead spend time improving tools to reduce costs. BOTW should not require 2MM sales to break even just as Horizon should not.

I agree that tools should be improved to bring down costs..... but even doing that cost money (until its done).

As things stand in the industry, what makes these games cost as much as they do isn't a mad craze for better graphics. Just look at a game like abzu, rime, child of light, below, the witness....etc. All extremely great looking games but none cost nearly as much as the bigger budget games to make. And that comes down to the size of the world and the assets that goes into those worlds. These games cost as much as they do because of how big, varied or how high the production levels are in the game. No amont of tools will bring down those costs.

20 years ago a game like ocarina of time had nothing but its world and gameplay to go for it. That was ok then and marked the pinnacle of game development. Today? development has grown, and now you need things like voice actors, cinematic directorsz surround sound design teams....etc, All these things add to the quality of the "base" game and in turn its cost of development.

Then we have games like COD, which doesnt really cost more than $30-$40M to actually develop each game.... but has a marketing budget that could b 3-4x more than that!!!!

All I am saying is that there is way more than graphics that result in why games cost as much as they do now.