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Forums - Politics Discussion - What really happened in Sweden?

VGPolyglot on 20 February 2017
areason said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yep, your bias has shone through. We already established previously that the way Sweden counts rapes is different from other countries. And before you say that it's the UN who determined the numbers, it says in the title that it's the police who count the numbers, so the UN is just compiling their statistics, not counting it themselves.

Despite what you consider "rape" or not, the amount of sex crimes increased significantly in Sweden from 2012 to now.

https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/statistik/utsatthet-for-brott/ntu.html

And the migrant crisis started in 2015, 3 years after the numbers started going up.



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Rab on 20 February 2017
VGPolyglot said:
Rab said:

No it's not, so it does not get funding from the EU to secure its border,  it has done more to slow this migration movement than most much larger and well funded EU countries, Macedonia saved counries further North a lot of grief will little recognition and help, EU or not, actually inspite of the EU which wanted open borders  

The EU does not want open borders from outside the EU, they want open borders within the EU. So, they are not against control for border countries that are not part of the EU.

That’s not the case with refugees, Germany and the EU did want open borders, they even criticized  Macedonia for closing its border, they put enormous pressure on them to keep it open, but they refused

Cope and paste link, wont work in VGChartz

(http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-defends-germany-s-open-border-for-migrants-1.2554054) 



areason on 20 February 2017
VGPolyglot said:
areason said:

Yes, and the article mentions years, with 6 and 12 cases of rape. I don't see how that is comprable to her statement about the colonge attacks. 

And that is without looking at the fact that it is a drinking festival.

That's reported rape. Most of the rapes weren't reported. I can assume that the victims felt safer to come forward during the Cologne incidents because they had the support of the people, unlike many other times when they would probably be under much more critcism, scrutiny and victim-blaming. It's sad that they were sexually assaulted, but coming forward about it is at least an improvement over before when they probably felt pressured into staying silent.

The article says that roughly 15 percent to 35 percent was reported, even if you take that as "true" it's still not comprable to her statement. 



VGPolyglot on 20 February 2017
Rab said:
VGPolyglot said:

The EU does not want open borders from outside the EU, they want open borders within the EU. So, they are not against control for border countries that are not part of the EU.

That’s not the case with refugees, Germany and the EU did want open borders, they even criticized  Macedonia for closing its border, they put enormous pressure on them to keep it open, but they refused

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-defends-germany-s-open-border-for-migrants-1.2554054 

You just sent me a broken link.



Rab on 20 February 2017
VGPolyglot said:
Rab said:

That’s not the case with refugees, Germany and the EU did want open borders, they even criticized  Macedonia for closing its border, they put enormous pressure on them to keep it open, but they refused

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-defends-germany-s-open-border-for-migrants-1.2554054 

You just sent me a broken link.

Yeah VGchartz wont let them work, just copy and paste it



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areason on 20 February 2017
VGPolyglot said:
areason said:

Despite what you consider "rape" or not, the amount of sex crimes increased significantly in Sweden from 2012 to now.

https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/statistik/utsatthet-for-brott/ntu.html

And the migrant crisis started in 2015, 3 years after the numbers started going up.

Dude if you open the article you can see the huge spike between 2014 and 2015.

And they've been taking in refugees since 2012.

No point in having a conversation with someone who doesn't bother to read articles. 



VGPolyglot on 20 February 2017
areason said:
VGPolyglot said:

That's reported rape. Most of the rapes weren't reported. I can assume that the victims felt safer to come forward during the Cologne incidents because they had the support of the people, unlike many other times when they would probably be under much more critcism, scrutiny and victim-blaming. It's sad that they were sexually assaulted, but coming forward about it is at least an improvement over before when they probably felt pressured into staying silent.

The article says that roughly 15 percent to 35 percent was reported, even if you take that as "true" it's still not comprable to her statement. 

The majority of rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows, which could make it much more difficult to come forward due to threats, pressure or stigma. The Cologne incident was about 50/50 Germans and immigrants, so that may have contributed to a shift in numbers. Of course, I could be wrong, but it seems logical to me:

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence



areason on 20 February 2017
VGPolyglot said:
areason said:

The article says that roughly 15 percent to 35 percent was reported, even if you take that as "true" it's still not comprable to her statement. 

The majority of rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows, which could make it much more difficult to come forward due to threats, pressure or stigma. The Cologne incident was about 50/50 Germans and immigrants, so that may have contributed to a shift in numbers. Of course, I could be wrong, but it seems logical to me:

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence

All you're doing is jumping ship, from sinking ship to sinking ship. I was specifically talking about the article that you linked, but apparently you didn't read it. 

And again you can't compare the numbers of oktoberfest to cologne. 



VGPolyglot on 20 February 2017
Rab said:
VGPolyglot said:

You just sent me a broken link.

Yeah VGchartz wont let them work, just copy and paste it

She's specifically referring to Germany's borders. Out of the countries that border Germany, only Switzerland is not part of the EU. And most migrants didn't go through Switzerland to get to Germany.



Lafiel on 20 February 2017
LadyJasmine said:
VGPolyglot said:

Maybe because there aren't as many refugees trying to come in? Look right here, the number of applicants is lower:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_quarterly_report

So according to you Germany and Sweden put on control and limits on refugees because numbers were going down.

I think it makes more sense that by putting limits and controls the number willing to come to those countries has gone down.

 

Or maybe your just that stupid? 

we (Germany) stopped taking in high quantities of refugees, because our german population showed drastic spikes in hate crimes and voters drifted towards extreme right parties

a number of the ~1.5 million refugees we host were ofcourse involved in crime (much to the delight of right wing parties and the gutter press), a few even in rape or murder (mostly against other refugees), but generally their criminal statistics aren't alarmingly higher than the local populace, especially when compared to people living in similar economic situations

the famous case of the 2016 new years rapings in cologne was disgusting, repulsive and can't be condenmend enough, but it was also mostly orchestrated by north african migrants (north africans in germany unfortunately show a significantly higher crime rate) and the Police did well to analyze what/how/why this happened and prevented similar occurrences this year - I'm sure every police force in germany will plan mass events with that in mind for years/decades to come, to ensure everyone's and especially every woman's safety as well as possible (without devolving into a police/surveillence state)