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Forums - Politics Discussion - DC waitress overwhelmed by message, tip left by Trump supporters

Raistline said:
A few quick thoughts on the Tipping conundrum within the US.

1) Wages made from tipping do not get claimed for taxes, the govt requires 8% of the employee's total receipts added to your W-2 (reported wages for you Non-US people). With the average tip in the US being closer to 12% of total receipts. This allows the individual to have that extra 4% to not be claimed on their W2. Legally the individual needs to claim all tips but they just don't, and the govt does not force them to. For example a person tends bar and sells exactly $100 worth of drinks. They get tipped 15% so they make $15. The company has to report $108 of wages on the W-2. The bartender walks away with $7 on non-taxed income.

2) If you remove tips and increase wages the same bar will increase the price of alcohol. Let's say they only increase it by 8%, the amount they must add to a W-2. So a $10 drink now costs $10.80. This increase in price will reduce total sales. The bar loses money, but the people buying alcohol are actually paying less money because they no longer tip. Where they would normally tip 12% and the drink would cost them $11.20 they are no saving 40 cents per drink. But the average person will not see this and will only see higher prices and choose not to buy as much.

3) following the last example, price go up only enough to cover government required W-2 submissions. The increase in price lowers sales. Now add on the increase of money for wages to the bartender, which will be far in the 20-30% increase so that the pay increase at least covers what the employee is missing in tips, and now we have a company that is losing money very fast. Even if they do brilliant marketing and increase business they will still likely lose money, go out of businesses and the bartender now has no job.

As much as it sucks, changing the tipping structure in a drastic fashion will not work. We are basically stuck with it, it is its own trap. If we change the model businesses that rely on it will die. If we don't change it people will continue to get screwed.

My sister is a long time bartender and and very liberal. However, she is not in favor of changing the tipping model, nor is she in favor of minimum wage increase in her field. Changing either the minimum wage or the tipping model of business will effect her negatively. In fact, our area has had minimum wage increases and the increase has caused drink prices to go up, and as a result her tips, and thus wages, have lowered since people are ordering less to drink.

Seriously, I made 7.25 starting off and eventually got to $11 in a restaurant. In a single night I would work 6-8 hours and still make less then the waitresses who worked 4-5 hours. They get paid an hourly wage, and still get to take home >$100 untaxed income a night. Minimum wage is only needed for slow or stingy places.



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VGPolyglot said:
Azuren said:

You're right, you're just un-American.

I'm definitely anti-nationalist and anti-patriotic, but under American law I'm still a citizen, even if I've lived in Canada for the majority of my life. By the way, I'm also anti-nationalist/patriotic when it comes to Canada as well.

Good thing the term un-American refers to values and not citizenship status.



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Well I think this is just nice. Hopefully more acts like this really do encourage solidarity.

The way things are going at the moment you'd think the USA was headed for a civil war.



sc94597 said:
vivster said:

Tipping is supporting greedy restaurant owners.

 

V-r0cK said:

This.

 

Volterra_90 said:

Tbh, I've never understood the tip culture. It allows restaurant owners to underpay their employees and make them live with just tips. I don't think that's fair at all.

 

VGPolyglot said:

We so desperately need a socialist revolution. As long as the power disparity is as it is less fortunate people will always be exploited.

Obligatory non-Americans missing the point of the thread.

 

Anyway, to humor you guys -- my mother preferred working tip jobs as a bartender and waitress because it kept her under the welfare cutoffs income-wise. Many waiting staff feel the same. It is mandated that if tips don't make up the difference between the nominal wage and the federal minimum wage the employer pays the difference. So regardless the absolute minimum is the same as everybody else and in many cases waiting staff can make much more than that through tips.

I'm not trying to downplay the gesture. I know that tip culture is very prominent in the US, so I think it's honestly a cool thing to do. I just don't think it's fair that greedy employers can get away with that. Taking advantage of that tip culture and keep al the profits for them, which happens. But, well, is a cultural thing, I just can't understand how it works, so if people in the US are happy with that... fair enough.



Azuren said:
VGPolyglot said:

I'm definitely anti-nationalist and anti-patriotic, but under American law I'm still a citizen, even if I've lived in Canada for the majority of my life. By the way, I'm also anti-nationalist/patriotic when it comes to Canada as well.

Good thing the term un-American refers to values and not citizenship status.

And I'm not offended in the slightest for being called un-American. What would the opposite be? Having slaves, punishing women into abortions, putting millions of people into slavery through prison, drone striking weddings to kills thousands of innocent people? Why would I want to be called American?



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Meh, you don't need to feel sorry for most food workers who live on tips. Unless they suck at their job or work at a bad place of business with bad tippers or a slow stream of customers, you can make tons of money. Going through college I delivered pizzas. On most nights it was easy to clear $100 after I took out money for gas, and that's on a 7 hour shift, plus my hourly wage. People who are good and work in restaurants can pull even more money in. Especially diners and stuff like IHOP or Dennys where there are a lot of customers and not many servers.

As for the thread, lol, wonder if GAF discussed it and I wonder which way they spun it?



Farsala said:
Raistline said:
A few quick thoughts on the Tipping conundrum within the US.

1) Wages made from tipping do not get claimed for taxes, the govt requires 8% of the employee's total receipts added to your W-2 (reported wages for you Non-US people). With the average tip in the US being closer to 12% of total receipts. This allows the individual to have that extra 4% to not be claimed on their W2. Legally the individual needs to claim all tips but they just don't, and the govt does not force them to. For example a person tends bar and sells exactly $100 worth of drinks. They get tipped 15% so they make $15. The company has to report $108 of wages on the W-2. The bartender walks away with $7 on non-taxed income.

2) If you remove tips and increase wages the same bar will increase the price of alcohol. Let's say they only increase it by 8%, the amount they must add to a W-2. So a $10 drink now costs $10.80. This increase in price will reduce total sales. The bar loses money, but the people buying alcohol are actually paying less money because they no longer tip. Where they would normally tip 12% and the drink would cost them $11.20 they are no saving 40 cents per drink. But the average person will not see this and will only see higher prices and choose not to buy as much.

3) following the last example, price go up only enough to cover government required W-2 submissions. The increase in price lowers sales. Now add on the increase of money for wages to the bartender, which will be far in the 20-30% increase so that the pay increase at least covers what the employee is missing in tips, and now we have a company that is losing money very fast. Even if they do brilliant marketing and increase business they will still likely lose money, go out of businesses and the bartender now has no job.

As much as it sucks, changing the tipping structure in a drastic fashion will not work. We are basically stuck with it, it is its own trap. If we change the model businesses that rely on it will die. If we don't change it people will continue to get screwed.

My sister is a long time bartender and and very liberal. However, she is not in favor of changing the tipping model, nor is she in favor of minimum wage increase in her field. Changing either the minimum wage or the tipping model of business will effect her negatively. In fact, our area has had minimum wage increases and the increase has caused drink prices to go up, and as a result her tips, and thus wages, have lowered since people are ordering less to drink.

Seriously, I made 7.25 starting off and eventually got to $11 in a restaurant. In a single night I would work 6-8 hours and still make less then the waitresses who worked 4-5 hours. They get paid an hourly wage, and still get to take home >$100 untaxed income a night. Minimum wage is only needed for slow or stingy places.

If you are not a server, or bartender in the restaurant industry and don't get tips you do get screwed with the tipping system, not denying that.

However, even if a bar is very busy and has lots of customers the wages of the bartenders and waitresses are almost always less than standard minimum wage and instead set at the government allowed tip industry minimum wage.

So as a quick case study to show the ripple effect raising minimum wage has at a restaurant lets use this example.  Bar X is paying a waitress $4.25 an hour while the minimum wage for tipping jobs is $3.25. The the local government increases that minimum to $5.25.  This is now a net cost for the business that they have to pay each and every waitress and bartender. The waitress making $4.25 will demand a wage increase to $6.25 to account for existing wage increases and seniority to carry over. The company is forced to comply so as to not lose their employees loyalty to the company. So now each empolyee is suddenly making the extra $2 an hour. If this is a small but successfull restaurant they will have around 15 employees that get this $2 an hour raise. The average for employee work hours is 30 a week. This is now a $900 pure loss of income. If this place was even mildly successful and had an medium cost of $15 a plate they would need 60 additional customers a week to not lose money. That obviosuly is not going to happen overnight. Their only choice to not lose money would be to increase cost of food and hope they don't increase it so much that they start to lose business.

Minimum wage is not about being stingy, or being a horrible company. It has a far broader reach than that.

 

 



So a waitress thinks that any White American that supports Trump is a racist? Is that what I am getting from this? Seriously?That should be what this news is about. Why people think that if you're OK with Trump and are White, you must be a racist.



LivingMetal said:
Pavolink said:

And who are those that ignore good in exchange of blinded political agenda?

You.  Take the good what was done by people on both sides of the political spectrum as presented in the article.  Let that inspire you to view us as individual Americans who are working, playing, and living together WITHOUT the FALSE assumption of generalizations as you employed in your original post.

My original post that only mentioned Trump. Gotcha.

It seems like I hit a nerve.



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I know this is potential propaganda to make Trump and his supporters look good, honing in on one solitary event like this  - but I mean at the same time.. it did happen. At least as far as we know..  And I have a hunch many other Trump supporters at least somewhat exemplify this attitude. Besides, God knows Trump's opposition uses propaganda against him FAR more often, not to mention seemingly have FAR more instances of bullying, rioting, violence, etc. Even if you don't agree with many of his appointments and/or policies (as I don't), you can only look at the current results, which is currently the actions of the supporters from both sides. And at a certain point, looking at the contrast of both sides, you've got to wonder, who is really in the right here?

In addition, I just don't understand the "Trump is racist/sexist" rhetoric, especially when you compare him to his only real opposition on the general.. A buffoon who says some impulsive, dumb shit? Sure. Egotistical alpha male? Probably. A bit Xenophobic even? Maybe. But racist/sexist? I just don't see it. Where's the evidence? 

This is heartwarming to see this story of kindness and unification amidst all the venom and divisiveness (mostly by the left of late), and I hope more Trump supporters lead by example to help wash away this mostly unfair "hateful bigot" they have been branded with. 



 

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