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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Can we agree Nintendo should go third party, now?

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So?

Shaddup, you Pony! 676 36.13%
 
Switch > PC/PS4/XBO 376 20.10%
 
I can buy them all, anyway 99 5.29%
 
Nintendon't need more 29 1.55%
 
Keep only doing handhelds 81 4.33%
 
Maybe one more gen... 78 4.17%
 
Sounds good! 277 14.80%
 
I have always wanted it... 90 4.81%
 
Don't care about Nintendo 125 6.68%
 
Sonic > Mario 40 2.14%
 
Total:1,871
Barkley on 18 April 2017
RolStoppable said:
Hynad said:

Aiming is clunky, slow and imprecise with this kind of setup. The right analog stick adresses that.

Aiming is done with the stick on the N64. Are you now arguing that aiming with a stick is clunky, slow and imprecise? Compared to a Wiimote for sure, but that doesn't work in the context of this discussion.

In what game? stick on N64 is used for movement, you have to hold L/R to aim with stick in Perfect Dark/Golden Eye, while aiming you cannot move forward or backward.



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Hynad on 18 April 2017
RolStoppable said:
Hynad said:

Aiming is clunky, slow and imprecise with this kind of setup. The right analog stick adresses that.

Aiming is done with the stick on the N64. Are you now arguing that aiming with a stick is clunky, slow and imprecise? Compared to a Wiimote for sure, but that doesn't work in the context of this discussion.

That's not what I see there. DPad and C buttons to look. Analog stick to move. You could change your input method, but that kind of setup still limited your input options. Taking away buttons that could be used for something else. With the control scheme pictured here, you had to press L to aim with the stick. Meaning you couldn't move while aiming. Again, the second analog stick adresses that. 



Barkley on 18 April 2017
RolStoppable said:

You guys. You are seriously telling me that you played the great FPS games of the N64 with crappy controls.

If you have a lick of sense, you change the control setup of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark to the Turok style. The four C-buttons for movement, the analog stick to aim in all directions. Fire, aim, action and weapon stay in the same place.

Never played Turok, how do you strafe with that control setup?



Hynad on 18 April 2017
RolStoppable said:
Barkley said:

In what game? stick on N64 is used for movement, you have to hold L/R to aim with stick in Perfect Dark/Golden Eye, while aiming you cannot move forward or backward.

 

Hynad said:

That's not what I see there. DPad and C buttons to look. Analog stick to move. You could change your input method, but that kind of setup still limited your input options. Taking away buttons that could be used for something else. Again, the second analog stick adresses that. 

You guys. You are seriously telling me that you played the great FPS games of the N64 with crappy controls.

If you have a lick of sense, you change the control setup of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark to the Turok style. The four C-buttons for movement, the analog stick to aim in all directions. Fire, aim, action and weapon stay in the same place.

If you have a lick of sense, you will understand the significance of having two analog sticks and how it greatly improves input precision and allows the rest of the buttons to be used for something better suited to them. 






Barkley on 18 April 2017
RolStoppable said:
Barkley said:

Never played Turok, how do you strafe with that control setup?

With the left and right C-buttons.

So stick turns too, for some reason I was envisioning the aiming still being confined to where you're currently looking, I didn't even know that was a control option in golden eye... damn.



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peachbuggy on 18 April 2017

Out of all 3 of the console manufacturers, Sony is in the most precarious situation financially. Meanwhile, contrary to what all these "Nintendoomers" would have you believe, Nintendo is in reality almost literally swimming in money!



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In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!

zorg1000 on 18 April 2017
Hynad said:
zorg1000 said:

i know you explained yourself, and im explaining how your corrected way of saying it is still incorrect.

Sorry man. Take it however you want to paint me. :D

ill paint you blue and call you smurfette



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Hynad on 18 April 2017
RolStoppable said:
Hynad said:

If you have a lick of sense, you will understand the significance of having two analog sticks and how it greatly improved input method precision and allowed the rest of the buttons to be used for something better suited to them. 

I played FPS games on various consoles. Replacing the C-buttons with a stick for movement made next to no difference because most of the time you were going to move at full speed anyway.

Now the difference you speak of isn't a question of the N64 setup for moving and looking vs. dual analog, but a question of how many buttons are available on a controller.

Nope. If you want to walk stealthily, walk normally, jog, or run while aiming/looking around, dual analog allows you to do that with only two control inputs. As opposed to having to press a combination of buttons (or using another button to switch to a different movement mode) to achieve all of it. The analog stick for movement and aiming allows you to be more precise, be it when you move your character in a 3D plane, or to aim precisely in the direction you want to. It gives you more options without cluttering the control scheme. Add to that the fact that triggers are clickable and, indeed, you get more buttons as well without having to lift your thumbs. 




ArchangelMadzz on 18 April 2017
zorg1000 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

No you said bigger install base doesn't mean more sales. And now you're saying significantly more sales? 

 

I think being available to 200 million people instead of 10 million easily suggests significantly more sales. 

 

Because those 3 games will sell 5x more instead of selling them on just your own hardware. That is literally the entire crux of the argument.. Everyone knows console industry profits are driven by software sales.

go back and read what i previously said, it seems like you have forgotten or you hoped that i had forgotten.

 

i have been saying they need to sell significantly more from the get go. this is what i said at the beginning of our discussion:

"Nintendo IP would have to sell alot more than they currently do in order for going 3rd party to be worthwhile"

 

i never said bigger install base cant potentially lead to higher sales, this is what i said:

"as for bigger install base automatically equaling bigger sales, thats not how it works."

 

as for 200m vs 10m install base, i already addressed that earlier:

"obviously when a game is stuck on a device with an extremely low install base like Wii U or Vita than it limits a games potential but there really isnt any reason to assume Switch will do as poorly as them."

 

at this point your arguments arent making sense.

How is ' as for bigger install base automatically equaling bigger sales, thats not how it works.' and 'you said bigger install base doesn't equal more sales' not the exact same thing? Honest, explain that to me. 

So you're saying you agree with everything I'm saying except the fact that they would sell enough on the other systems to make it worth it? Cause then we can just go on from there if that's accurate. 



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Hynad on 18 April 2017
RolStoppable said:

This argument would be a lot more convincing if there were FPS and TPS that really required the player to move at different speeds. But the vast majority does not, and games clearly did not do it when dual analog was first introduced. There's no revolution for gameplay without games.

But that's the catch here. You mistake me saying that there was no revolution as saying that there was no improvement at all.


Shoulder buttons are revolutionary because they add more buttons accessible to fingers that were then not used, but dual analog sticks aren't revolutionary because you can't think of games that exploited their full potential from the get go...

Go figure.