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Forums - Nintendo - How can a company be this out of touch...

firebush03 said:
Kyuu said:

Playststion home consoles are more consistent sellers so "doom" sentiments will naturally not be as common as on Nintendo's consoles, which fluctuate a lot more gen on gen. Again, even Nintendo's own fanbase are infamous doom posters. Your comparison is moot.

Outside Japan, Switch 2's sales are declining against Switch 1 (months aligned). It had weaker first November and December than Switch despite the better deals (relative to base price) and Switch brand being far more recognisable today than it was in 2017. No, this is NOT a "doom post", because:

(1.) You are wrong, again. I can pull up the specific figures later today: Switch 2 has sold consistently better than Switch 1 outside of JP and, yes, outside of launch as well. Off the top of my head, Switch 2 actually performed worse in JP than Switch 1 during December, yet was only down 0.3mil WW… which still equates to 3.8mil in that single month. And this doesn’t account for the supply bottleneck of Switch 1 bursting in December, and Switch 2’s far stronger October (thanks to Pokémon) and comparably strong November.

(2.) Doesn’t matter if the deals were better compared to the base price if the cost adjusted for inflation is 30% higher (especially not in an economy where real wages continue to drop).

1. Switch 2 sold 3.45 millon in December (including 1.08 million from Japan)

Switch 1 sold 4.28 million (920k from Japan).

2. It matters because consoles cost more to manufacture and Nintendo's profit margins on hardware will most likely be lower this generation despite the higher pricetag. If they can't reduce prices, or instead prices go up, they may not be able to come close to Switch 1 sales in the long run. This sentiment isn't "doom".



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Kyuu said:

1. Switch 2 sold 3.45 millon in December (including 1.08 million from Japan)

Switch 1 sold 4.28 million (920k from Japan).

2. It matters because consoles cost more to manufacture and Nintendo's profit margins on hardware will most likely be lower this generation despite the higher pricetag. If they can't reduce prices, or instead prices go up, they may not be able to come close to Switch 1 sales in the long run. This sentiment isn't "doom".

Ah, I forgot figures were adjusted down (in “Other” regions) following the fiscal report. My bad. Still doesn’t account for the nuance of the circumstances being that one just had a supply bottleneck burst— it’d be like comparing PS5 in early 2023 to PS4 in early 2016. It’s an unreasonable comparison without accounting for the nuance.



firebush03 said:
Kyuu said:

1. Switch 2 sold 3.45 millon in December (including 1.08 million from Japan)

Switch 1 sold 4.28 million (920k from Japan).

2. It matters because consoles cost more to manufacture and Nintendo's profit margins on hardware will most likely be lower this generation despite the higher pricetag. If they can't reduce prices, or instead prices go up, they may not be able to come close to Switch 1 sales in the long run. This sentiment isn't "doom".

Ah, I forgot figures were adjusted down (in “Other” regions) following the fiscal report. My bad. Still doesn’t account for the nuance of the circumstances being that one just had a supply bottleneck burst— it’d be like comparing PS5 in early 2023 to PS4 in early 2016. It’s an unreasonable comparison without accounting for the nuance.

These nuances are precisely why the decline may continue.



Kyuu said:
firebush03 said:

Ah, I forgot figures were adjusted down (in “Other” regions) following the fiscal report. My bad. Still doesn’t account for the nuance of the circumstances being that one just had a supply bottleneck burst— it’d be like comparing PS5 in early 2023 to PS4 in early 2016. It’s an unreasonable comparison without accounting for the nuance.

These nuances are precisely why the decline may continue.

Brother Kyuu, respectfully, the bottleneck burst was done after the holiday was over. Switch 2 is stomping all over Switch 1 so far this year— in Japan, for instance, it’s been a consistent ratio of 2.5:1.



firebush03 said:
Kyuu said:

These nuances are precisely why the decline may continue.

Brother Kyuu, respectfully, the bottleneck burst was done after the holiday was over. Switch 2 is stomping all over Switch 1 so far this year— in Japan, for instance, it’s been a consistent ratio of 2.5:1.

What data have we got beside Spain and Japan in January (and 2 weeks from February)? Spain's numbers aren't looking hot so far this year, which makes sense in the context of November and December, and may extend to the rest of Europe.

It'll be huge in Japan, no one questions that.

Edit:

Just to be clear: it wouldn't surprise me at all if Switch 2 beats Switch's 2018, especially the Jan-October period. But a decline is possible too (if highly unlikely). There is nothing wrong in getting your prediction wrong on this due to market conditions and uncertainties. We don't even know if Switch 2 is going to maintain its current price. It should be acceptable to speculate and get things wrong so long as it's nothing too silly.

Last edited by Kyuu - 1 day ago

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Yeah Nintendo gets way more hate and trolling than PS does, it's not even close.

That's not to say that PS doesn't get hate of course, but dooming and downplaying Nintendo in particular has been epidemic for ages, doubly so since Switch 2's reveal.

The slightest hint of anything less than favourable, whether it be PS5 being ahead for one month or what have you, inevitably spawns a tsunami of "Switch 2 is doomed" rubbish, whereas any time it does well is just handwaved away as "that's to be expected/it should have done better/it doesn't count because of reasons."



curl-6 said:

Yeah Nintendo gets way more hate and trolling than PS does, it's not even close.

That's not to say that PS doesn't get hate of course, but dooming and downplaying Nintendo in particular has been epidemic for ages, doubly so since Switch 2's reveal.

The slightest hint of anything less than favourable, whether it be PS5 being ahead for one month or what have you, inevitably spawns a tsunami of "Switch 2 is doomed" rubbish, whereas any time it does well is just handwaved away as "that's to be expected/it should have done better/it doesn't count because of reasons."

Similar bullshit is constantly said about Playstation:

1. Boostclocked overheated 10 tflops RDNA 1.5 wtf!!! (Anyone challenging the narrative is a "Sony shill").

2. Xbox is so close in Europe! *Ignores shortages and pretends they affect PS and Xbox in equal measures*

3. Eh... PS5 can't keep up with PS4 even though Xbox is dead *ignores pricing and the availability of other competitors*

4. Eh... It's doing well because of holiday deals. So it kind of doesn't count (ignores Sony's rising profits after years of claiming "profit is everything").

5. Monster Hunter not on a Nintendo platform?!!! DOOOOOOMED! 2 million copies max. (MHWorld is nearing 30 million).

6. Scalpers! CD player! DVD player!!! Competition shooting themselves in the foot!!! Anything but "Playstation is great and peoole actually like it".

In this site, Playstation gets more trolling/concerns as far as I'm aware, and maybe you don't feel it because you're part of a Nintendo majority fanbase and not a fan of Playstation. Playstation however has a much less paranoid fanbase (in part because PS home consoles are very consistent) so its own fanbase will do less PS doom posting compared to Nintendo's where pessimistic Nintendo fans often get confused as "haters wanting Nintendo to fall". Like Proxy-Pie here on Switch 1, or Sephiran and multiple Nintendo fans on Switch 2's sales. Many Nintendo fans will read these comments and automatically register them as "haters" to keep the victim narrative. Bananaking (respected PS fan) here was also presented as a toxic hater. He made a dumb calculation and that's all there is to it. If YOU were a PS fan, you would have 100% been labelled a hater when you compared Switch to Wii U and Nintendo to arrogant 2006 Sony.

Honestly, there is nothing wrong in expecting Switch 2 to sell a LOT less than Switch 1. Labeling anyone who thinks the high prices might hurt sales a hater or a doom poster is childish regardless of how their predictions turn out. Thinking that the early explosive sales may be misleading is a valid take regardless of the final outcome.

Personally, I expect Switch 2 to sell around 130 million lifetime. But anything between 100-160 million sounds reasonable.



Kyuu said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah Nintendo gets way more hate and trolling than PS does, it's not even close.

That's not to say that PS doesn't get hate of course, but dooming and downplaying Nintendo in particular has been epidemic for ages, doubly so since Switch 2's reveal.

The slightest hint of anything less than favourable, whether it be PS5 being ahead for one month or what have you, inevitably spawns a tsunami of "Switch 2 is doomed" rubbish, whereas any time it does well is just handwaved away as "that's to be expected/it should have done better/it doesn't count because of reasons."

Similar bullshit is constantly said about Playstation:

1. Boostclocked overheated 10 tflops RDNA 1.5 wtf!!! (Anyone challenging the narrative is a "Sony shill").

2. Xbox is so close in Europe! *Ignores shortages and pretends they affect PS and Xbox in equal measures*

3. Eh... PS5 can't keep up with PS4 even though Xbox is dead *ignores pricing and the availability of other competitors*

4. Eh... It's doing well because of holiday deals. So it kind of doesn't count (ignores Sony's rising profits after years of claiming "profit is everything").

5. Monster Hunter not on a Nintendo platform?!!! DOOOOOOMED! 2 million copies max. (MHWorld is nearing 30 million).

6. Scalpers! CD player! DVD player!!! Competition shooting themselves in the foot!!! Anything but "Playstation is great and peoole actually like it".

In this site, Playstation gets more trolling/concerns as far as I'm aware, and maybe you don't feel it because you're part of a Nintendo majority fanbase and not a fan of Playstation. Playstation however has a much less paranoid fanbase (in part because PS home consoles are very consistent) so its own fanbase will do less PS doom posting compared to Nintendo's where pessimistic Nintendo fans often get confused as "haters wanting Nintendo to fall". Like Proxy-Pie here on Switch 1, or Sephiran and multiple Nintendo fans on Switch 2's sales. Many Nintendo fans will read these comments and automatically register them as "haters" to keep the victim narrative. Bananaking (respected PS fan) here was also presented as a toxic hater. He made a dumb calculation and that's all there is to it. If YOU were a PS fan, you would have 100% been labelled a hater when you compared Switch to Wii U and Nintendo to arrogant 2006 Sony.

Honestly, there is nothing wrong in expecting Switch 2 to sell a LOT less than Switch 1. Labeling anyone who thinks the high prices might hurt sales a hater or a doom poster is childish regardless of how their predictions turn out. Thinking that the early explosive sales may be misleading is a valid take regardless of the final outcome.

Personally, I expect Switch 2 to sell around 130 million lifetime. But anything between 100-160 million sounds reasonable.

As I said there is hate and trolling against PS, but it doesn't approach the near religious extent that shitting on Nintendo does, there's practically a whole industry/culture online around dooming Nintendo, a veritable army of countless grifters who base their whole existence online around hating them to an extent that's just not as common for any other major platform.

Anti-PS grifters of course exist too, but not nearly to the same extent.



curl-6 said:
Kyuu said:

Similar bullshit is constantly said about Playstation:

1. Boostclocked overheated 10 tflops RDNA 1.5 wtf!!! (Anyone challenging the narrative is a "Sony shill").

2. Xbox is so close in Europe! *Ignores shortages and pretends they affect PS and Xbox in equal measures*

3. Eh... PS5 can't keep up with PS4 even though Xbox is dead *ignores pricing and the availability of other competitors*

4. Eh... It's doing well because of holiday deals. So it kind of doesn't count (ignores Sony's rising profits after years of claiming "profit is everything").

5. Monster Hunter not on a Nintendo platform?!!! DOOOOOOMED! 2 million copies max. (MHWorld is nearing 30 million).

6. Scalpers! CD player! DVD player!!! Competition shooting themselves in the foot!!! Anything but "Playstation is great and peoole actually like it".

In this site, Playstation gets more trolling/concerns as far as I'm aware, and maybe you don't feel it because you're part of a Nintendo majority fanbase and not a fan of Playstation. Playstation however has a much less paranoid fanbase (in part because PS home consoles are very consistent) so its own fanbase will do less PS doom posting compared to Nintendo's where pessimistic Nintendo fans often get confused as "haters wanting Nintendo to fall". Like Proxy-Pie here on Switch 1, or Sephiran and multiple Nintendo fans on Switch 2's sales. Many Nintendo fans will read these comments and automatically register them as "haters" to keep the victim narrative. Bananaking (respected PS fan) here was also presented as a toxic hater. He made a dumb calculation and that's all there is to it. If YOU were a PS fan, you would have 100% been labelled a hater when you compared Switch to Wii U and Nintendo to arrogant 2006 Sony.

Honestly, there is nothing wrong in expecting Switch 2 to sell a LOT less than Switch 1. Labeling anyone who thinks the high prices might hurt sales a hater or a doom poster is childish regardless of how their predictions turn out. Thinking that the early explosive sales may be misleading is a valid take regardless of the final outcome.

Personally, I expect Switch 2 to sell around 130 million lifetime. But anything between 100-160 million sounds reasonable.

As I said there is hate and trolling against PS, but it doesn't approach the near religious extent that shitting on Nintendo does, there's practically a whole industry/culture online around dooming Nintendo, a veritable army of countless grifters who base their whole existence online around hating them to an extent that's just not as common for any other major platform.

Anti-PS grifters of course exist too, but not nearly to the same extent.

Someordinarygamers has 3 million subs based almost entirely on hating Nintendo and promoting piracy. 

Arlo has seen his channel grow because he frequently tries to play both sides of the Nintendo hate bandwagon vs genuine Nintendo fans.

Tons of sites such as TheGamer make articles accusing Nintendo of going after game preservation by taking down Bowser, Yuzu, and other known Switch 1 piracy rings. 

Hell, I still remember people trying to say I was against game preservation because I didn't think BotW needed an emulator at launch. And now the game has been remastered on Switch 2 which proves I was right. 



Jumpin said:
Louie said:

Number 4 is actually really funny because during the early Wii days, many posters on this website said Nintendo was creating "artificial demand" for the console by intentionally limiting supply. (You probably lived through that period as well, seeing your account was created in 2009 - but I think we should explain this to newer posters). They accused Nintendo of "stockpiling" Wii consoles (which, hilariously, is what all companies do because demand during the holidays is so much higher than during the rest of the year) and argued sales would be way lower if people didn't have the fear of missing out. I still have the first draft of an article somewhere on my laptop that we planned to publish on VGChartz to explain this.

And, even more hilarious, today it's a good thing and an indicator of success that the PS5 was sold out at first and an indicator of doom for Switch 2 that it isn't.

TLDR: If a Nintendo console sells out its sales "don't count" because Nintendo is creating artificial demand and that's a sign that actual demand is low. If it doesn't sell out its sales must be bad, the console is slowing down and actual demand is low. It's a never-ending cycle. 

Thanks, “artificial demand” was the term I was looking for. And you described the argument quite well. I find it funny how instead of focusing on the monstrous sales, they look at an incidental feature, or perception of what they believe is going on, and try to handwave the fact that the console has monstrous sales because of the incidental reasoning.

There must be a fallacy for that type of reasoning… It’s like a mix of special pleading and moving the goalposts to create a contradiction that makes for a no-win situation.

False dichotomy. 

"Look either I can untie Julie from the train tracks and let Jim die or I can untie Jim and let Julie die. I don't have time to save them both! Someone has to die."

"There's a Switch that puts the train on a different track entirely. No need to untie anyone."