Forums - Website Topics - The Moderator Thread

Moren said:
CGI-Quality said:

If both sides had the same weight, he wouldn't have been moderated (or received a lighter moderation). As the moderation still stands, it is obvious what the bottom line is. I simply see both sides of an argument that could be made (nothing unreasonable about suggesting a warning before acting on someone who's never seen a moderation, but in certain circumstances, like a new account [and one that takes things to this level on their first post], we are less forgiving).

But as a head moderator, you are lending credibility to a "both sides" argument. It was another mod who made the moderation, and you followed up by calling the post mild. Intentionally or not, this influences user behavior and even moderator behavior. Had you been the one who made the ban and followed up with discussion, then I could understand where you are coming from.

My friend, we're just going to have to disagree on that one. There really isn't any victory for the user in question (or any new user who'd take this route). I'm simply saying that, from a strictly authoritative standpoint, it wasn't unreasonable to hear out the suggestions of seasoned users, while also maintaining that we acted where necessary. That is one of the jobs of moderators. I could see why it may bother some people, but that's it. I also saw the bigger issue — that it was disruptive to a thread and this person has yet to even make a dent in this community. 

Also, by comparison to what could have been said (or what I've seen), this act was mild. Doesn't mean it was any less deserving of a moderation given the variables included in the problem.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 26 July 2020

                                                                                                             

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CGI-Quality said:
John2290 said:

Whoops, I meant to take out the moderator comment, I didn't mean to call anyone out singularly and I'm using this as an example cause it's an issue I see time and time again where a user makes an account and gets hammered off the site with, I'm sure a sense of spite not to return.

Indeed, I have no idea if they will post again but it would be great to see some cultivation for new users instead of straight to the time outs and I don't presume to know what goes on behind the scenes and because of that I'll not give the suggestions on how this could be fixed yet is it too much to ask for some patience among the mods for new users, I really wanna see this site come back to life as it's easily one of my favourite sites on the net. 

If it broke a rule of bait or flaming, sure whatever but straight to a ban is something large sites with huge userbases can afford, not one that is in decline and is loosing it's most loyal posters in protest regularly. Maybe it is a meme that would cause trouble but is that trouble worth loosing a new user who may go on to bring the site years of content? 

Actually since you're open to hearing my suggestions, how about a three strike rule for fresh users with warning then move to a very short ban and increase from there and also have a notification to a user on the log in screen where it just says you've been banned cause they may not be able to find their way back to their account and assume they are actually banned and not just suspended for a time and maybe this would explain why they don't come back once their ban time is up. Perhaps it's time to call bans, suspensions and replace use the word ban for permabans alone? And how about a complete good faith rule for posters in the under the 50 post count who are in that kind of trial phase and assume the best even when it seems the worst. Just spit ballin.

All I'm saying is it takes investment to get into a site and when users are banned without that investment ya can't blame them for turning their backs.

Reasonable suggestions. That said, in my eyes, a post like that one goes a bit beyond strikes because it is a first post, designed to bait, and is likely to derail a thread from its outset. Sure, a seasoned user would most likely have seen a lesser moderation, but that also is because they've had time to prove themselves. The idea of first impressions goes both ways. Granted, we may come off as "mean" to someone new in a case like this, but that someone also comes off as "mean" for instantly causing trouble like that on their very first post. Goose/gander (if you follow me). 

Indeed, I follow ya. Well I've said my piece and I understand the reasoning behind the ban now. I'll leave it at that. 



 

China Numba wan!!

John2290 said:
Raven said:

That investment is a two-way street. If your "investment" into a forum as a new user is spreading (in this case fictitious) FUD and cheap trolling from the get-go, how can you expect to be embraced in the community. That's the purpose of moderations anyway, if there was any doubt about the conduct expected of your behavior, then the ban/moderation is an obvious indicator that the behavior isn't wanted or acceptable. Take a second to familiarize yourself with the rules and move on.

If this was the mentality for sites like twitter or Reddit in the early days they'd all be completely barren.

That's not even a counter to my argument, it's basically a "what if" statement. Having moderated here in the past, I've experienced first-hand that out of control toxicity on this forum caused valuable users to leave and not come back. 



John2290 said:

I was going to post this in the "This place is getting deserted" thread but I decided here was more appropriate so I have a query on behalf of someone else, this user below who was banned for this post. I missed the reasoning since they are unbanned but I was wondering, just why? This site was built on console wars and this user decided to create and account and post, was given no leniency or a warning and most likely will never post here again. Are the mods actively trying to keep the site from seeing any boom come the generation swap? 

I see nothing wrong with this post in fact, it's quite accurate but aside from that, if you ban for memes on new users with no regard to giving a warning you're just killing any chance this forum has to see new users take the place of the old users, let alone see a boom with people who have buyers anxiety when the 9th gen arrives. The numbers are gone, this is all that is left. Just why?

TheRealOne said:

-User was banned for this post. JWeincom

First off, the post is most certainly not accurate. To the best of my knowledge, Infinity War was not made on a PS5. So, not accurate at all.

Secondly, the post was made in a topic that was posting the trailer for Halo Infinity. Coming in just to take shots at Halo Infinite is kind of shitty, but depending on how it's worded might be appropriate. The bigger question is what did this topic have to do with PS5? What is the purpose of mentioning PS5 at all, if not specifically to start shit with XBox fans? 

Basically, someone posted a topic about the new Halo game, and a user barreled in to say HEY PS5 IS BETTER THAN XBOX! That's exactly the kind of trolling behavior we don't need.

The current rules are to be strict with new users. If that changes, then I'll change how I do things (btw this moderation was brought up in mod chat before I did anything for the record). For me, quality is more important than quantity, and honestly, if a user's went through the effort of making an account just to antagonize other users... I'd say they're probably not going to contribute too much to the community. Of course, they're welcome to come back after the ban and prove me wrong. There's also a fairly high likelihood that it's an alt account. Again, it's not my decision really, but I'd prefer a smaller community than one filled with those kinds of posts.

And also consider the fact that this may actually increase new users. Suppose we have a Halo fan who is a perspective user who might actually contribute to the community in the future. And the first thing they see is a troll post. Not a good luck for us. At least by showing that these types of things are not what this community allows, we have a better chance of keeping that user.

So, yeah. I totally stand by that decision.



Raven said:
John2290 said:

If this was the mentality for sites like twitter or Reddit in the early days they'd all be completely barren.

That's not even a counter to my argument, it's basically a "what if" statement. Having moderated here in the past, I've experienced first-hand that out of control toxicity on this forum caused valuable users to leave and not come back. 

I didn't come here to get in any arguments so I'm not trying to counter anything, I have concerns for the future of the site is all if something is not done to cultivate the new users even if they come across as if they are trolling or blatantly break rules in their first few posts. I'm suggesting warnings and a change to the use of the word ban in favour of suspension along with a little patience more than the new users have a right to, I'm not suggesting the mods let the trolls loose en mass. 



 

China Numba wan!!

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JWeinCom said:
John2290 said:

I was going to post this in the "This place is getting deserted" thread but I decided here was more appropriate so I have a query on behalf of someone else, this user below who was banned for this post. I missed the reasoning since they are unbanned but I was wondering, just why? This site was built on console wars and this user decided to create and account and post, was given no leniency or a warning and most likely will never post here again. Are the mods actively trying to keep the site from seeing any boom come the generation swap? 

I see nothing wrong with this post in fact, it's quite accurate but aside from that, if you ban for memes on new users with no regard to giving a warning you're just killing any chance this forum has to see new users take the place of the old users, let alone see a boom with people who have buyers anxiety when the 9th gen arrives. The numbers are gone, this is all that is left. Just why?

First off, the post is most certainly not accurate. To the best of my knowledge, Infinity War was not made on a PS5. So, not accurate at all.

Secondly, the post was made in a topic that was posting the trailer for Halo Infinity. Coming in just to take shots at Halo Infinite is kind of shitty, but depending on how it's worded might be appropriate. The bigger question is what did this topic have to do with PS5? What is the purpose of mentioning PS5 at all, if not specifically to start shit with XBox fans? 

Basically, someone posted a topic about the new Halo game, and a user barreled in to say HEY PS5 IS BETTER THAN XBOX! That's exactly the kind of trolling behavior we don't need.

The current rules are to be strict with new users. If that changes, then I'll change how I do things (btw this moderation was brought up in mod chat before I did anything for the record). For me, quality is more important than quantity, and honestly, if a user's went through the effort of making an account just to antagonize other users... I'd say they're probably not going to contribute too much to the community. Of course, they're welcome to come back after the ban and prove me wrong. There's also a fairly high likelihood that it's an alt account. Again, it's not my decision really, but I'd prefer a smaller community than one filled with those kinds of posts.

And also consider the fact that this may actually increase new users. Suppose we have a Halo fan who is a perspective user who might actually contribute to the community in the future. And the first thing they see is a troll post. Not a good luck for us. At least by showing that these types of things are not what this community allows, we have a better chance of keeping that user.

So, yeah. I totally stand by that decision.

I didn't mean to call you out and forgot to snip the moderator comment by the time I managed to find this thread cause the link from Google didn't work. I apologise for that. I also was mainly using this specific ban as a general idea of what I see done to new users the past few months, Hearing it from CGI and now you I get the reasoning specifically here and mostly overall, I just wish there could be another method found to deal with this in general that helps cultivate a new userbase for the future. Warnings, three strikes, thread time outs... Oh Idk, anything but straight to the vacation.



 

China Numba wan!!

John2290 said:
JWeinCom said:

~snip

I didn't mean to call you out and forgot to snip the moderator comment by the time I managed to find this thread cause the link from Google didn't work. I apologise for that. I also was mainly using this specific ban as a general idea of what I see done to new users the past few months, Hearing it from CGI and now you I get the reasoning specifically here and mostly overall, I just wish there could be another method found to deal with this in general that helps cultivate a new userbase for the future. Warnings, three strikes, thread time outs... Oh Idk, anything but straight to the vacation.

But this still has to be a two-way street. A new user has to prove themselves. We don't know if that account wasn't created, on the spot, to cause that kind of friction, and because we aren't mind readers, we can only work with what you have shown. If this is what you'd do on a first post, what about the tenth? Hundredth? Thousandth (should you make it that far)?

Generally speaking, I tend to work on a strikes basis (PM → Warning → 1 Day ban). That is under normal circumstances. A new user (usually someone with less than 200 hundred posts and/or here within a few months of joining)  has yet to show that we can offer this leniency (and that's if they have at least more than one post). In this rare case, we don't even have that to work with. A Thread Ban makes more sense on someone who's been around long enough and causes trouble in similar topics of a said subject. This isn't even that



                                                                                                             

John2290 said:
JWeinCom said:

First off, the post is most certainly not accurate. To the best of my knowledge, Infinity War was not made on a PS5. So, not accurate at all.

Secondly, the post was made in a topic that was posting the trailer for Halo Infinity. Coming in just to take shots at Halo Infinite is kind of shitty, but depending on how it's worded might be appropriate. The bigger question is what did this topic have to do with PS5? What is the purpose of mentioning PS5 at all, if not specifically to start shit with XBox fans? 

Basically, someone posted a topic about the new Halo game, and a user barreled in to say HEY PS5 IS BETTER THAN XBOX! That's exactly the kind of trolling behavior we don't need.

The current rules are to be strict with new users. If that changes, then I'll change how I do things (btw this moderation was brought up in mod chat before I did anything for the record). For me, quality is more important than quantity, and honestly, if a user's went through the effort of making an account just to antagonize other users... I'd say they're probably not going to contribute too much to the community. Of course, they're welcome to come back after the ban and prove me wrong. There's also a fairly high likelihood that it's an alt account. Again, it's not my decision really, but I'd prefer a smaller community than one filled with those kinds of posts.

And also consider the fact that this may actually increase new users. Suppose we have a Halo fan who is a perspective user who might actually contribute to the community in the future. And the first thing they see is a troll post. Not a good luck for us. At least by showing that these types of things are not what this community allows, we have a better chance of keeping that user.

So, yeah. I totally stand by that decision.

I didn't mean to call you out and forgot to snip the moderator comment by the time I managed to find this thread cause the link from Google didn't work. I apologise for that. I also was mainly using this specific ban as a general idea of what I see done to new users the past few months, Hearing it from CGI and now you I get the reasoning specifically here and mostly overall, I just wish there could be another method found to deal with this in general that helps cultivate a new userbase for the future. Warnings, three strikes, thread time outs... Oh Idk, anything but straight to the vacation.

I don't really mind. I would prefer though for the actual topic to be linked, so the post can be seen in context. I'm not like upset or anything, but if an action I took is brought up, I feel like I should explain it. 



Kan jag maka der post titlar på svenska? Ör ist svenska cönsidera ett "foul language?" SVENSKAR!!!!!!!!
(Can I make a post title in Swedish? Or is Swedish considered a foul language? Sweeeedish!)

Under Heading 4, section A, subsection 6:
4. THREAD CREATION
A) Thread Titles:
6. Should not include inappropriate/foul language.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 26 July 2020

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Kan jag making der post titlar på svenska? Ör ist svenska cönsidera ett "foul language?" SVENSKAR!!!!!!!!
(Can I make a post title in Swedish? Or is Swedish considered a foul language? Sweeeedish!)

Under Heading 4, section A, subsection 6:
4. THREAD CREATION
A) Thread Titles:
6. Should not include inappropriate/foul language.

As this is mainly an English speaking website, it's better to have the thread title with that language. No, Swedish Language isn't a "bad language", but yeah. Create it in English.