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Forums - Nintendo - Will the Nintendo hatedom go down after the Switch reveal?

dharh said:
bdbdbd said:

You know, if you're not interested in Wii BC, it makes next to no sense to get the more expensive version (if you get a game to go with Basic). I paid 220€ for my Premium model new, and didn't take long before I had to buy a USB stick, currently I have 128GB USB on it. Virtual Console version of Metroid Prime Trilogy don't work from the USB, so this is so far the only thing so far I've needed the Premium model.

Hmm I may have to research that a little then.  I want to get my entire previous Nintendo catalog on the Wii U when I buy it so I don't have to bust out my old consoles when I want to play old games (I don't emu).  If a USB stick works then i'll probably do that instead.

For the Wii BC the Premium comes with a sensor bar, that's missing from the Basic and I don't know if other VC Wii games launch from USB. For the Trilogy (or perhaps Wii games in general) the file size is the problem if the games don't launch properly from USB, as the Basic model is left only with 3GB or so of free space after system updates, so you can't fit Wii games in the internal memory. 

Wii U's Virtual Console pales in comparison to Wii's but you can access the Wii VC in the Wii mode of the console. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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bdbdbd said:
Einsam_Delphin said:

 

Highly disagree, Splatoon's amazing gameplay, the most important thing, makes it well worth using a control scheme you already know how to use and actively use in 90% of games you play. Demanding/expecting games use the system's non-primary control scheme is silly in it of itself, but Wiimote controls psychically wouldn't even work in this game, not well anyway. Not enough inputs even without counting the second screen functionality, and how would turning work besides being awkwardly slow, a complete no no for a fastpaced game. For this type of game, wiimote controls would actually be the worst method as there's a lot more to it than simply aiming.

I see you're writing off the Switch port already. So, you think the dual-analog (the primary method) is to one to go? Motion control is the secondary option. 

There's no control method I use in 90% of the games I play, I use Wii Remote sideways, NES controller, 2DS D-pad roughly 60% of the time. Secondly, when talking about shooters, I've been using the Wii Remote+Nunchuck option by far the most, and it is best suited for the fast paced arcade action. Splatoon isn't that different from Metroid Prime, Water Warfare or Onslaught.

 

How am I writing off the Switch port? I also don't understand your question, why would dual analog be going anywhere, they've shown it's still there in the Switch trailer. It's motion that we don't yet know about. Also even with the gyro on you're still using dual analog.

I didn't mean just you, I'm talking in general. I shoulda specified the type of game where the vast majority use the standard control scheme being console shooters of course, but it still holds true that basically everyone knows how to use that set-up. I don't know what the later two games are but Metroid Prime is definitely not a fast paced multiplayer shooter and if the other two games are like it then they're not a good comparison either. My explanation still holds for why Wiimote controls wouldn't work for Splatoon, that's most likely the reason they weren't an option.



dharh said:
RolStoppable said:

I reviewed the whole conversation we had in a properly awake state. I did indeed not connect the dots that you were refering to a post of yours that you had just posted minutes ago. That was a clear mistake on my part.

However, the entry point of the conversation is as weird as it was before. If you were trying to add nuance by mentioning an example, then it would have to be anything except a Nintendo game, because the person I talked to specifically excluded Nintendo games from the games he felt he had a "duty" to buy, meaning he has no problem to skip Nintendo games he isn't interested in. I suppose you read my post ("Your duty is to support good games...") as saying that good games are determined by Metascores and/or community consensus, but that interpretation doesn't hold up in the context of the entire conversation. He doesn't need to buy third party games to have a leg to stand on in arguments, so it doesn't matter how much other people insist that a game should have been bought.

That's why I started to question you, because I thought that you just wanted to say something negative about Nintendo. An assumption that isn't far-fetched based on your posting history; I don't need to remember specifics to be aware of the general attitude. Your initial post either needed a non-Nintendo game as example or a more elaborate explanation for what you were trying to say. By now you have provided a sufficient explanation.

That's it from my side, you can have the last word if there's anything left to say.

I 'chose' Splatoon simply because prior to reading your post I had read bdbdbd's post where he mentioned Splatoon.  It just happened to be on my mind.  It's also a pretty popular game here that I just happen to not like.  I guess I could have chosen FFIX which I also don't like within my favorite series no less.

Other than that my negativity torwards Nintendo is specific to the last few generations.  NES/SNES/GB/GBA era Nintendo for me is some of the best gaming I ever had.  Nintendo had the best first party, the best third party, and was always considered the must own console no matter what genre you loved.  This is simply not the case now and has not been for a while.

I don't think NES/SNES + GB days will ever happen for Nintendo again. It was a long time ago. It's sad but I've mostly accepted that. 

They'll never have that kind of market sway again I don't think. 

Take 25 years. Now add that to you current age and think about how old you'll be. If you're 26-27, that means you'll be over 50 years old. That's a long time, we just don't realize it in certain contexts (ie: the NES/SNES era feels like "yesterday" but it was a long, long time ago). It's been like 23-24 years since the SNES was in its prime days, that's a long time ago. 

If you're a Nintendo fan but you don't remember or missed out on the late 80s/early-to-mid 1990s ... you missed out unfortunately. That was really a magical time. 



DarkD said:
Einsam_Delphin said:

What you're saying still lacks explanation, and if you do think the Switch reveal was good then I really can't understand why you're shocked that a good looking product isn't getting mass hate.

I thought I explained it pretty well.  Hardcore console gamers thought the Wii was the worst threat to mainstream gaming since the Atari 2600's ET.  For all the reasons I stated before, incredibly profitable mini-game compilations, exercise games, a looming Sony bankruptcy, a looming Microsoft exiting the console industry.  

Wii U was the immediate successor to the Wii and even kept part of the originals name.  It was the perfect target for the hatred and rage gamers felt at the time.  

All of that was explained in my initial post in longer form....

 

As in explain what any of that has to do with the Switch and you being shocked a good looking product isn't getting hate. Plus honestly, some of your reasons for Wii being hated (since when btw, I've seen far more hate for Wii U) don't make sense to me. Nintendo has nothing to do with Sony's dumb mistakes or Microsoft leaving videogames which didn't even happen. Hating Nintendo for temporarily making certain types of games is also pretty weak when they (and everyone else) were still making traditional games. I think it's just the irrational people that hate Nintendo no matter what who hated the Wii for those reasons, and they'll hate on the Switch aswell. Reasonable people would atleast give the Switch a chance so it makes sense to me that they aren't hating on it, atleast not yet!



bdbdbd said:
dharh said:

Because I've played it, quite a bit actually, which you'd know if you paid attention.  It's a game quite a few Nintendo fans like and use as an example of a Wii U game done right, yet I don't like it for very obvious reasons.  So yes it's a good example of a 'good' game that would be bad for me to purchase and it's certainly not my duty to own if I did own a Wii U.

Also, I will eventually own a Wii U.  Why you may ask?  Because it has at least one game I do like, Xenoblade Chronicles X.  However, I won't buy a Wii U until I can get the deluxe for $200 or less.  So far no dice.

You know, if you're not interested in Wii BC, it makes next to no sense to get the more expensive version (if you get a game to go with Basic). I paid 220€ for my Premium model new, and didn't take long before I had to buy a USB stick, currently I have 128GB USB on it. Virtual Console version of Metroid Prime Trilogy don't work from the USB, so this is so far the only thing so far I've needed the Premium model.

Nintendo is selling Wii U delux with Nintendo Land for 200 on ebay right now.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Wii-U-32GB-Deluxe-Nintendo-Land-FACTORY-REFURBISHED-BY-NINTENDO-/112237169726?hash=item1a21db4c3e:g:IUMAAOSwa~BYUZ53



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Einsam_Delphin said:
bdbdbd said:

I see you're writing off the Switch port already. So, you think the dual-analog (the primary method) is to one to go? Motion control is the secondary option. 

There's no control method I use in 90% of the games I play, I use Wii Remote sideways, NES controller, 2DS D-pad roughly 60% of the time. Secondly, when talking about shooters, I've been using the Wii Remote+Nunchuck option by far the most, and it is best suited for the fast paced arcade action. Splatoon isn't that different from Metroid Prime, Water Warfare or Onslaught.

 

 

How am I writing off the Switch port? I also don't understand your question, why would dual analog be going anywhere, they've shown it's still there in the Switch trailer. It's motion that we don't yet know about. Also even with the gyro on you're still using dual analog.

I didn't mean just you, I'm talking in general. I shoulda specified the type of game where the vast majority use the standard control scheme being console shooters of course, but it still holds true that basically everyone knows how to use that set-up. I don't know what the later two games are but Metroid Prime is definitely not a fast paced multiplayer shooter and if the other two games are like it then they're not a good comparison either. My explanation still holds for why Wiimote controls wouldn't work for Splatoon, that's most likely the reason they weren't an option.

 

I misread your comment on the second screen, you weren't writing the Switch port off.

No, you don't have to use dual analog with the gyro, it works better without it.

Yes, Wii Remote+Nunchuck would work much better than the current methods available. There is no Wii Remote+Nunchuck option because nobody cared to put it there - if you read the Iwata asks, it's pretty clear nobody ever considered the option. How many inputs you need in Splatoon? You need jump, dive, shoot (1st weapon, 2nd weapon), move, aim. On Wii Remote+nunchuck you have a total of ten buttons, analog stick, pointer and two motion controllers available. Pointer aiming do not require a valibration button, unlike motion controls.

Metroid Prime isn't multiplayer game, but it had it's fair share of fast-paced action. Water Warfare is Hudsons shooter (with online multiplayer when Wii still had online, and my most playr online shooter ever) and Onslaught is Hudsons arcade FPS (it had online competetive mode) - and all are atleast as fast paced as Splatoon. I find it ironic to promote dual analog at the same time calling Wii Remote controls slow.

So, what do you think is Switch's standard control method? I mean, you can play with just one mini-controller. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:

I misread your comment on the second screen, you weren't writing the Switch port off.

No, you don't have to use dual analog with the gyro, it works better without it.

Yes, Wii Remote+Nunchuck would work much better than the current methods available. There is no Wii Remote+Nunchuck option because nobody cared to put it there - if you read the Iwata asks, it's pretty clear nobody ever considered the option. How many inputs you need in Splatoon? You need jump, dive, shoot (1st weapon, 2nd weapon), move, aim. On Wii Remote+nunchuck you have a total of ten buttons, analog stick, pointer and two motion controllers available. Pointer aiming do not require a valibration button, unlike motion controls.

Metroid Prime isn't multiplayer game, but it had it's fair share of fast-paced action. Water Warfare is Hudsons shooter (with online multiplayer when Wii still had online, and my most playr online shooter ever) and Onslaught is Hudsons arcade FPS (it had online competetive mode) - and all are atleast as fast paced as Splatoon. I find it ironic to promote dual analog at the same time calling Wii Remote controls slow.

So, what do you think is Switch's standard control method? I mean, you can play with just one mini-controller. 

 

Oh I think I know what you mean, yeah Splatoon for Switch will not have a second screen so it wont play the same. Doesn't mean the game will be anymore Wiimote friendly though, especially since no second screen likely means the game will use more of the controller's buttons.

Nah you kinda have to, otherwise you can't move and would run into a similar problem as the Wiimote, being slow turning of the camera.

They'd work better because... you say so? Just saying so doesn't change the camera issues and lack of inputs. I doubt the developers really didn't think about it considering Nintendo generally includes as many control options as possible in their games, but eh doesn't matter either way. You need a screen on the controller, which Wiimotes don't have. I could just leave it at that, but also Wiimote+Nunchuck would fit every button except for one, as the 1 and 2 buttons aren't viable inputs. There's main weapon, sub weapon, special weapon, squid form, jump, and center camera, 6 actions that need to be immediately accessible, but MoteChuck set-up only has 5 inputs that fit the bill, being A, B, C, Z, and maybe down on the D-pad but that's a stretch.

Ironic or not, dual analog is better for camera control. With the Wiimote you have to point at the edges of the screen before the camera starts to turn, that's simply slower than tilting a stick for immediate effect.

Switch's primariy controls will just be the same as every system besides the Wii. They already showed BotW, Skyrim, and Splatoon, games that can't be played on a single controller attachment.



Nah, people will hate regardless of how good is what Nintendo shows. I bet most specs-related hate will continue and the haters will keep making doom threads about how the Switch is dead without western third party support, they will point out even the smallest graphics-related flaws they can find, some Nintendo fans will continue being bitter about how Nintendo is not making another "real" home console, some will say "too many remasters", etc, etc.



Ljink96 said:
pray4mojo said:

The SNES was as "vanilla" as vanilla could get and it's their best console. If done right, Nintendo could dominate by doing it again. 

Having said that, I am fine with the blue ocean. But the argument is there.

It also had a ton of tech gimmicks too. There's a balance if Nintendo wants to do another PS4 clone. And there was really nothing on the SNES's level in the 90's. There was only 1 powerful home console that had popularity at the time and it was the SNES. Now we have 2 of the exact same console on the market, and I really don't want another one.  The argument is definitely there but I don't think it'll be the success that everybody thinks it will. 

The Genesis and SNES were the same console. They were the PS4 and Xbox One of the early 90's. When the SNES released, it was basically an NES on steroids. It was vanilla in so much as it simply followed the Genesis's blue prints which in turn, followed the NES's blue prints. It didn't do or attempt to do what the Wii or Wii U did. It was chasing the red ocean, not the blue one.



pray4mojo said:
Ljink96 said:

It also had a ton of tech gimmicks too. There's a balance if Nintendo wants to do another PS4 clone. And there was really nothing on the SNES's level in the 90's. There was only 1 powerful home console that had popularity at the time and it was the SNES. Now we have 2 of the exact same console on the market, and I really don't want another one.  The argument is definitely there but I don't think it'll be the success that everybody thinks it will. 

The Genesis and SNES were the same console. They were the PS4 and Xbox One of the early 90's. When the SNES released, it was basically an NES on steroids. It was vanilla in so much as it simply followed the Genesis's blue prints which in turn, followed the NES's blue prints. It didn't do or attempt to do what the Wii or Wii U did. It was chasing the red ocean, not the blue one.

The SNES outclassed the Genesis in every way possible. Except for clock speed. But the SNES had FX chips to combat this if necessary. They weren't the same. They didn't share the same huge 3rd party games like PS4 and Xbox One do today. You wouldn't have Final Fantasy VI on SNES and Genesis like you have FFXV on PS4 and Xbox One. The Genesis would butcher the colors due to its limited on screen color capability.  The sound was garbage for the most part, etc. The only thing I'm trying to say I guess, is that the market has changed since the 90's. Simply making another vanilla console to compete today isn't going to work. Especially when there's 2 of the same console already on the market. Even if you do say SNES and GEN were the same (which they really aren't) it was still only 2 consoles competing. There was a third, turbografx, and it bombed. The market was too crowded.