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Forums - Politics Discussion - "We live in a post-factual world."

method114 said:
JRPGfan said:

except Trump told more lies/untruths/madeupbullshitnumbers, than all the other candidates together.

Yet he won the election? the explaination? people dont care about the truth anymore.

#dontbelievethemedia, #mediabiased

They all lie who cares who cares who's lying more. 

Everyone should.



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method114 said:

There are left wingers that believe women can do anything men can. They believe in the wage gap which has already been disproven as well. 

You mean physically do anything a man can? I don't think anybody is saying that. They want women to be in more executive roles and more STEM fields, which women are certainly as capable as men of doing. Nobody is saying women should be out there roughnecking and coal mining. 

And yes, the wage gap myth is something I hate. I just takes the aggregate salaries of women and men and compares them, but doesn't factor in type of job, experience level, hours worked, etc. So a doctor working 16 hours a day vs a secretary working part time. There's no "wage gap" there, that's a "work gap". While there are some idiots who beat their chest about 77 cents, there still is an actual gap of about 3-4 cents that's unaccounted for (when all things are equal. So, same profession, experience, responsibilities, etc) that left wingers, who actually research the issue instead of getting caught in the rhetoric, are concerned about. 



RolStoppable said:

But the way the election in the USA works, national polling isn't the decisive criterion. You would have to look at states individually, because the winner takes it all in almost all of them. I don't think those polls reflected that Trump was going to win in the Rust Belt states.

Historic growth for stock market, blahblahblah... I just told you to go beyond the most superficial of an analysis.

And yes, Trump is better than Hillary. Both are pathological liars, so that doesn't work as a slight against Trump.

I know nationally polling isn't the decisive criteria, but national polling does give an idea of the point spread. Which national polling was in the margin of error. And, again, things like the Comey letter, which was sent only a week before the election, could have swung some voters at the last minute, so that wasn't reflected in the final exit polls. Like I said, Trump won because of 80,000 votes in 3 states. More people can fit into Giants game than that. 

And please, direct me to something that isn't a "superficial analysis" of the stock market being the highest its ever been. I guess you know more than what all the economists are saying. I even tried to look it up to view specifically from your POV. "Stock market growth mediocre Obama", and nothing shows up, outside of fringe right wing sites saying "well, the stock market is growing and we have record highs, but it's not growing fast enough!

And how is he better than Clinton? Because he's an "outsider"? An outsider who just put a bunch of Exxon and Goldman Sachs execs in his cabinet, when he was supposed to be "draining the swamp" of Washington insiders with corporate interests. His lack of any political experience whatsoever certainly isn't a positive. 



RolStoppable said:
palou said:

Building more nukes at this point only makes Trump look like a moron. They're useless, expensive and dangerous, and everyone knows it. Maybe he might succeed in aliniating some american allies.

Gosh, you people who take everything Trump says literally. On one hand it's annoying, but on the other hand it's exactly the reason why Trump is so good. People who don't like him believe pretty much everything he says. He doesn't need to build more nukes because merely saying that he will is going to be treated as the exact same thing.

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

This is such a phony cop out. So basically he can say whatever he wants and afterwards say "just joking! lulz" and there's zero accountability for anything said, right? This is how the presidency works now? 

Nope, that's not what it means. It's just a reminder that people should think about whether things Trump says will actually become reality.

There's our post-factual world in a nutshell. Facts and statements don't matter, play on the feelings of the voter to win.

It was once believed that the internet would provide a tool for people to find facts and truths. However it has only become the greatest instrument for confirmation bias. You can always find something to back up your bias, while it has become an even more effictive tool to influence the masses than news outlets.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwynne/2016/11/14/public-relations-in-a-post-factual-world/#5c363f394825
Gizmodo has covered this issue extensively. “It’s hard to visit Facebook without seeing phony headlines like 'FBI Agent Suspected in Hillary Email Leaks Found Dead in Apparent Murder-Suicide' or 'Pope Francis Shocks World, Endorses Donald Trump for President, Releases Statement' promoted by no-name news sites like the Denver Guardian and Ending the Fed."

We now live in a world where we're taught not to trust anything that's said, written down or published. Everyone lies, history has been selectively rewritten and the truth is buried by fabricated doubts and misinformation. Everyone is pushing an agenda, no one can be trusted. Playing on the basic fears of humans has become the only strategy to convince people. Whether it be fear of strangers, fear of global destruction by climate change or fear of losing some imaginary arms race.



Nice one, Rol!

I especially love the recent outcry about "fake news" that the media has been promoting in the weeks since the election.  Funny how some of the biggest fake news stories in recent history were created by mainstream media figures and journalists themselves, like Brian Williams' complete fabrication of being on a helicopter in Iraq that took fire (as well as other incidents), or the Rolling Stone article about an woman who was allegedly gang-raped at a UVA fraternity that turned out to be completely made up bullshit.

Or go back even further, when in 2004 CBS News ran a story about George W. Bush's military service during an election year that utilized falsified documents to try to smear Bush, resulting in the firing of longtime anchor Dan Rather.  I guess fake news is only bad when it helps Republicans / the political right.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

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NightDragon83 said:

Nice one, Rol!

I especially love the recent outcry about "fake news" that the media has been promoting in the weeks since the election.  Funny how some of the biggest fake news stories in recent history were created by mainstream media figures and journalists themselves, like Brian Williams' complete fabrication of being on a helicopter in Iraq that took fire (as well as other incidents), or the Rolling Stone article about an woman who was allegedly gang-raped at a UVA fraternity that turned out to be completely made up bullshit.

Or go back even further, when in 2004 CBS News ran a story about George W. Bush's military service during an election year that utilized falsified documents to try to smear Bush, resulting in the firing of longtime anchor Dan Rather.  I guess fake news is only bad when it helps Republicans / the political right.

Funny, when Brian Williams and Dan Rather did their thing, they got fired. But when Bill O'Reilly lies about reporting in the Falklands or lies about that reporter committing suicide (in relation to the JFK assassination), he keeps his job and gets defended. When Trump promotes fake news about Ted Cruz's dad helping assassinate JFK, because he read it in a damned tabloid, he gets voters to turn on Cruz and crush him in the primaries and eventually get elected president.

Republicans/the political defend fake news that benefits them. Fake news from the left gets called out as such and has reprecussions. Fake news is bad, in general, but it seems especially bad on the right. 



You don't need to tell... people only want the narrative that fits their conceptions and everyone that disagree is stupid who can't see the truth.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
You don't need to tell... people only want the narrative that fits their conceptions and everyone that disagree is stupid who can't see the truth.

That's true.

Stupid people peddle a narrative that is stupid.

Intelligent people peddle a narrative that is not stupid.

The stupid people don't know they are stupid because they are so stupid.

The intelligent people know they are not stupid.

This gives the illusion that nobody's narrative is more or less stupid and it goes to the realm of subjectivity etc.

This is a FALLACY.

If you analyse the FACTS here, we have a stupid group who doesn't know what it's talking about and an intelligent group that does.

Just because the stupid people are too stupid to acknowledge how stupid they are doesn't make their opinion subjectively valid.

The "stupid people" and the "intelligent people" are substitute phrases for the left and the right, I won't say who is who.

One deals in ideoligy, the other deals in substantive facts.



Funny people here criticizing he was upholding both Clinton before but now criticizes them. Yes, that is a complain most democrats did, so Trump is viewed as much more as a Democrat highjack than a true Republican.

And on scietinfic disbelief... leftwing push the "gender ideology" that is completely bogus but get applause, they deny economic knowledge and push for socialism and that is humanitarian, they go against freedoms but that is ok because they want our good.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

UnderstatedCornHole said:
DonFerrari said:
You don't need to tell... people only want the narrative that fits their conceptions and everyone that disagree is stupid who can't see the truth.

That's true.

Stupid people peddle a narrative that is stupid.

Intelligent people peddle a narrative that is not stupid.

The stupid people don't know they are stupid because they are so stupid.

The intelligent people know they are not stupid.

This gives the illusion that nobody's narrative is more or less stupid and it goes to the realm of subjectivity etc.

This is a FALLACY.

If you analyse the FACTS here, we have a stupid group who doesn't know what it's talking about and an intelligent group that does.

Just because the stupid people are too stupid to acknowledge how stupid they are doesn't make their opinion subjectively valid.

The "stupid people" and the "intelligent people" are substitute phrases for the left and the right, I won't say who is who.

One deals in ideoligy, the other deals in substantive facts.

Yes, I would have to agree.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."