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Forums - Nintendo - Why would devs back another underpowered Nintendo console?

Miyamotoo said:
spemanig said:

It's more complicated than that.

At end of day that is most important, its also important that Switch supports all modern engines and that its seems thats is easy  to work/port for it, but even if is basically PS4 just with Nintendo logo 3rd party would abandoned very quickly if it doesn't sell.

Engines are fine and all, but having to scale a game all the way down to work at 153 GFLOPS is going to be challenging in many cases. 

I think what developers will be more likely to do is try porting PS3/360 games, those will work easier and not require such huge compromises. 

It's also important that Nintendo fans actually buy some of these games. I bought COD: Black Ops 2, Assassin's Creed III, Rayman Legends, Tekken Tag Tourney 2, and FIFA for Wii U, so I did my part. I doubt most Nintendo fans even gave many of these games a chance though, just a whole lot of "where's Zelda? where's Zelda? Zelda? Are you going to show Zelda?". 

Wii U had decent third party support from the start (I doubt actually that the Switch will be much better for Western support early on, quite possibly worse), but no one bought any of those games. 



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Miyamotoo said:
spemanig said:

It's more complicated than that.

At end of day that is most important, its also important that Switch supports all modern engines and that its seems thats is easy  to work/port for it, but even if is basically PS4 just with Nintendo logo 3rd party would abandoned very quickly if it doesn't sell.

No, what's most important is having an audience that will buy those games.

If 100m people buy the Switch and don't buy multiplats, the installed base is as good as zero to them.



spemanig said:
Miyamotoo said:

At end of day that is most important, its also important that Switch supports all modern engines and that its seems thats is easy  to work/port for it, but even if is basically PS4 just with Nintendo logo 3rd party would abandoned very quickly if it doesn't sell.

No, what's most important is having an audience that will buy those games.

If 100m people buy the Switch and don't buy multiplats, the installed base is as good as zero to them.

One of the problems is quite frankly Sony/MS simply do too good of a job at catering to that audience. Give them credit. They market well to the audience and that audience constantly has like some new "tentpole" big game for the action/sports/shooter crowd, it's pretty much non-stop. 

Nintendo lost the part of their demographic that used to be open to buying a wide variety of content a long time ago, because those people got fed up with Nintendo most during the N64/early GameCube days and switched to the Playstation/XBox. 

What's left of the Nintendo audience, or the Nintendo audience that remained were people who were very much attached to just Nintendo IP. But this audience doesn't really buy a lot of third party content. You have to twist their arm in a lot of ways and put Link or Mario in the game half the time to get it to sell even half decent. 

I mean really what's the last game on a Nintendo console that sold really well that wasn't

1) Using a mascot/cartoon character or established Nintendo IP

2) Wasn't a casual/dance/party game

Capcom made a huge risk on the GameCube for example giving it Resident Evil exclusively (at the time their top franchise and probably the no.2 or 3 third party franchise in the world) ... and even that early sales for RE Remake and RE0 were below Capcom's expectations. 



rjason12 said:
A lot of you are sliding right past the part where besthesda (a company who has never released anything on any current Nintendo console because of specs) talked great about the Switch, and said prior to the reveal that they would not work on it AT ALL if it's specs weren't good enough. Regardless of it being a port, they still have shown more support for the Switch than any prior Nintendo console.

I think this is being overlooked by many. Unless there are some lucrative deals going on behind the scenes, something doesn't add up. Maybe our rumors are just that... Maybe Nintendo finally started playing ball (aka paying for games like Sony and Microsoft do). 

Soundwave said:

1) Using a mascot/cartoon character or established Nintendo IP

2) Wasn't a casual/dance/party game

Capcom made a huge risk on the GameCube for example giving it Resident Evil exclusively (at the time their top franchise and probably the no.2 or 3 third party franchise in the world) ... and even that early sales for RE Remake and RE0 were below Capcom's expectations. 

"Resident Evil 4" did pretty well, though. Also, good point on including Nintendo IP in third party games. "Soulcalibur 2" sold best on GCN because of Link. "Hyrule Warriors" marked a sucessful uptick in DW sales due to their Nintendo tie-in. 

As Nintendo fans, we have to own some of the responsibility for third party retreat. The rest belongs to Nintendo for not being accommodating, and 3rd parties for mostly shoveling inferior ports at higher prices our way... there is an expectation of quality that Nintendo fans hold that 3rd parties don't deliver as consistently as Nintendo, and when said inferior versions of games are brought to our console of choice, they often want to charge full price for a game that is now $20 on other consoles. 



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You know what else I just thought about? It feels like people are assuming that potential Switch multiplats have to run at 720p undocked and 1080p when docked because of the Switch's screen resolution. That makes no sense when you think about it.

I'm going to use Rise of the Tomb Raider as an example. It runs at 720p on the 360. Most people assume that the Switch will be more powerful than the 360 undocked. We can assume that they chose 720p on the 360 so it would look as good as it possibly could. I think that most people assume that a Switch port of the same game would hypothetically run at 720p in portable mode and 1080p in console mode.

...Why, though? Why wouldn't the console mode be designed to run at 720p to make it look as good as possible. We heard a rumor saying that the Switch would allow games to run as low as 540p. What if that's for portable mode? That would eliminate some of the gap in graphical fidelity for sure and make it look closer to the XBO version, albeit with a much lower resolution. That shouldn't matter because it's on a smaller screen. A lot of Vita games ran at subnative resolutions to look better, so we shouldn't assume that Switch games won't either. At least for multiplats.

Games designed for 1080p on PS4 and 900p on XBO would look much closer to a gen 8 game at 720p docked than they would at a higher resolution, and that's probably the more likely scenario.

I'm guessing that's partially why games like Dark Souls 3 can run well on Switch. Running a 1080p PS4/XBO game at 540p in portable mode and then boosting the resolution of that to 720p docked. It would help the games look closer to their gen 8 counterparts, sacrificing clarity, but the actual graphical difference wouldn't be as drastic.



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Soundwave said:
Teriol said:

i tell you like 100 times on other threads that Skirym Especial Edition is not the same 5 year old game, and 5 years ago it was a game that the ps360 barely ran stop repeating your mantra and please accept the reality.

Who says it isn't a port of the 360/PS3 game?

Switch should be able to run a port of any PS3/360 game. 

Laura Kate Dale said that is port of Skyrim Remaster.

 

Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:

At end of day that is most important, its also important that Switch supports all modern engines and that its seems thats is easy  to work/port for it, but even if is basically PS4 just with Nintendo logo 3rd party would abandoned very quickly if it doesn't sell.

Engines are fine and all, but having to scale a game all the way down to work at 153 GFLOPS is going to be challenging in many cases. 

I think what developers will be more likely to do is try porting PS3/360 games, those will work easier and not require such huge compromises. 

It's also important that Nintendo fans actually buy some of these games. I bought COD: Black Ops 2, Assassin's Creed III, Rayman Legends, Tekken Tag Tourney 2, and FIFA for Wii U, so I did my part. I doubt most Nintendo fans even gave many of these games a chance though, just a whole lot of "where's Zelda? where's Zelda? Zelda? Are you going to show Zelda?". 

Wii U had decent third party support from the start (I doubt actually that the Switch will be much better for Western support early on, quite possibly worse), but no one bought any of those games. 

Of Course it will be some chalalange, but fact is that can be done and if developers think that will paid back they will do it.

Switch is with tech/architecture much incompatible closer to XB1/PS4 than to 12 years old consoles.

That is difrent matter, but whats most important is that platform actualy sells and that is popular. Just look how much Wii had Fifa, NBA, Maiden, NHL, NFS, CoD...games compared to Wii U.

 

 

spemanig said:
Miyamotoo said:

At end of day that is most important, its also important that Switch supports all modern engines and that its seems thats is easy  to work/port for it, but even if is basically PS4 just with Nintendo logo 3rd party would abandoned very quickly if it doesn't sell.

No, what's most important is having an audience that will buy those games.

If 100m people buy the Switch and don't buy multiplats, the installed base is as good as zero to them.

That is difrent matter, but whats most important is that platform actualy sells and that is popular. Just look how much Wii had Fifa, NBA, Maiden, NHL, NFS, CoD...games compared to Wii U.



Miyamotoo said:

spemanig said:

No, what's most important is having an audience that will buy those games.

If 100m people buy the Switch and don't buy multiplats, the installed base is as good as zero to them.

That is difrent matter, but whats most important is that platform actualy sells and that is popular. Just look how much Wii had Fifa, NBA, Maiden, NHL, NFS, CoD...games compared to Wii U.

It's not. The OG Xbox got good third party support against the PS2. 150m vs what, 23m? What's most important is audience. If Switch sells 20m units and all those people buy multiplats, multiplats will stay. If it sells 150m and no one buys multiplats, they won't.

The Wii had horrible multiplatform support. It isn't a shining example of getting multiplats. For every Fifa, it missed 3 Bioshocks.



spemanig said:

Miyamotoo said:

That is difrent matter, but whats most important is that platform actualy sells and that is popular. Just look how much Wii had Fifa, NBA, Maiden, NHL, NFS, CoD...games compared to Wii U.

It's not. The OG Xbox got good third party support against the PS2. 150m vs what, 23m? What's most important is audience. If Switch sells 20m units and all those people buy multiplats, multiplats will stay. If it sells 150m and no one buys multiplats, they won't.

The Wii had horrible multiplatform support. It isn't a shining example of getting multiplats. For every Fifa, it missed 3 Bioshocks.

OG Xbox actualy had stronger hardware than PS2/GC so porting was much easier, while Wii was 20-30 x less powerful than PS3/Xbox360 so porting game to 20-30x less powerful challenge was real chalanage.

And yet had better 3rd party support than Wii U, 11 Fifa games, 7 NBA games, 6 Need For Speed games, 5 Call of Duty games...how many Wii U had of those games exactly.



Well, maybe they expect it to be succesful. If it's succesful, they'll continue supporting it. If not, they won't.



Miyamotoo said:
setsunatenshi said:
I am 0% convinced skyrim will even appear on the Switch, as far as I could tell it was simply video playing for marketing purposes.

Dark souls? Yeah sure... we'll see about that next month too...

Too bad for you, because Bethesda confirmed Skyrim for Switch.

Not sure why it would be bad or good for me. I really have no skin in this one way or the other, just presenting my doubts.