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Forums - Nintendo - I flew too close to the 1TF sun and my Switch wings melted.

zorg1000 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I literally just said NOT IN ITS FORM FACTOR MODE. jesus Zorg  learn to read man, no offense but that's like the 2nd time I had to point that out.

 

Other stuff is jsut speculation and agree to disagree. I personally don't think it's case closed argument, Nintendo could get back with third parties and get western support, and people would follow. Sure, most Battlefield/Cod players probably wouldn't care about on the go functionality, but I think Watch Dogs 2 and Sports games and Assassin's Creed, as mostly single player games(or games with minimal online usage) would be great for the Switch. 

I can read fine, even when docked you still have to take into account undocked mode, you're not going to get XBO level performance docked then undock it and still get solid performance and battery life. Also as the gap in docked/undocked mode gets bigger, the harder it will be to optimize for both settings.

Sure, lets agree to disagree then.

Apparently you can't read fine because I had to repeat myself. It's not like it's "Oh NO Alchemist you just read my point wrong..." you clearly weren't paying attention , but whatever. 

 

And I disagree. If Nintendo used pascal and used a better battery, the battery life would be much better even if it used let's say 60% of a new tegra chip or let's say 70% of a new tegra chip. Nintendo surely could us RSD to find a good combination. All these small things add up, but in general Battery could have been much better even with the specs currently leaked they still should have used a better battery for the system.

 

also, while it is true that more work needs to be done in order to make it work for both modes, Unreal Engine 4 DOES make it at least a bit easier to have a basis point for development. We also already know that the Switch is easier to develop for than any other console not accounting for it's two different modes. I imagine that all that would really need to happen is that Nintendo/developers would have to find a good balance depending on the game. That's it. It's not really clear how much more complex it would be compare to let's say developing for both ps4 and ps4 pro. We do know it would probably be MORE COMPLEX, how much is different though. Besides, again, the system is easier to develop for anyways. 

But you know...Nintendo...



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curl-6 said:

Even among non-hardcore gamers, Xbox One and Wii U got the reputation of being "weak" consoles while PS4 got the reputation of being more powerful and better, and that helped PS4 and hindered Wii U/Xbone in terms of sales. If Switch likewise gets a reputation as being "weak" that will hurt it. The recent leak has already negatively affected consumer perception of Switch.

Lmao, no it has not, dude.



curl-6 said:

I'm not saying run it at full speed undocked or anything, that's obviously not viable, but 30% of a Tegra X1 is really, really slow. 
And since most devs are likely going to use undocked mode as the base level for graphics and simply up-res it when docked, 
the games aren't really going to look much better than Wii U this way.

Yes, that is the reality it seems.

JRPGfan said:
mutantsushi said:

I think it does have bearing on Switch in revealing consequences of cheaping out on performance strategy.
...Switch also commits to obsolete 2D 20nm process when future fab improvements (10nm, 7nm) will be 3D FinFET.
Rather than getting on board same fab node bandwagon everybody else is, even if aiming for smaller APU at lower clock,
Nintendo uses last-gen fab node which makes their design less amenable to future cost reductions from fab improvements.
It is aiming far behind the curve, and thus will always miss the largest % of cost improvements which the mainstream gains.

But cheap as f***.
Nvidia has tons of these 3 year old chips they made laying around, they cant sell
...If they launch it at 199$ they re going to be off to a great start. Handheld users will be willing to get it early/day1 too at that price.

Is there a specific basis for idea this is not new production, or just supposition?
Regardless, I would say it is falling into the same trap, because if it is moderately succesful, they will need new production at some point.
As you say, they won't have problems selling the initial batch between diehard fans and those solely comparing it to 3DS.
But basing the design on "garage sale" unsustainable price rather than sustainable production does not bode well for long term viability.
Not only do they give up the easy 30% performance:watt gains a modern 14nm FinFET design would allow,
a design based on 2D layout would need total rework (not just shrink) to use future 3D FinFET processes (14nm, 10nm, 7nm).
If they were so cheap to choose this in the beginning why spend later for less benefit?  
A modern 14nm FinFET design is not financially prohibitive now, and would enable easiest shrink path in future.
And importantly, while perhaps still not competitive with MS/Sony, it would allow solid step up in graphics from Wii U.
The chosen approach can't really do that, portable being equivalent to Wii U, and docked having power to output that at 1080p.
Obviously, we have some Wii U games already at 1080p, and there will be some graphics gains there,
but I'm talking opportunity to demonstrate clear cut "next generation" of Nintendo graphics, which isn't here IMHO.



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

Even among non-hardcore gamers, Xbox One and Wii U got the reputation of being "weak" consoles while PS4 got the reputation of being more powerful and better, and that helped PS4 and hindered Wii U/Xbone in terms of sales. If Switch likewise gets a reputation as being "weak" that will hurt it. The recent leak has already negatively affected consumer perception of Switch.

Lmao, no it has not, dude.

Yes it has. The specs are below the expectations of most gamers, and the articles leaking said specs got millions of views. Obviously not every consumer attends internet forums, but word spreads, as it did with Wii U and Xbox One. Guy who posts on IGN, VGChartz, or Eurogamer is hanging out with his mates. Topic of Switch comes up. Guys tells his mates, "nah, not really worth getting one, it's really weak".



curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

The recent leak has already negatively affected consumer perception of Switch.

Based on what, a handful of people on this site & neogaf?

Can you honestly say you personally know anyone who isn't an avid gamer/tech enthusiast whose perception of Switch has negatively been affected by this leak?

99.99% of the world probably has no idea about this leak or would even have any idea what it means.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

The recent leak has already negatively affected consumer perception of Switch.

Based on what, a handful of people on this site & neogaf?

Can you honestly say you personally know anyone who isn't an avid gamer/tech enthusiast whose perception of Switch has negatively been affected by this leak?

99.99% of the world probably has no idea about this leak or would even have any idea what it means.

I think it's a mistake to assume only 0.01% of gamers are informed about these things. In 1996 maybe, but not today. It is common public knowledge, for example, that PS4 is stronger than Xbox One.

And yeah, I know many people in real life who may not be as into gaming as me but still hear about these things. We live in the information age, word gets around. Back in 2012/2013 more than one friend of mine decided against getting a Wii U when they heard it was struggling to outperform PS3 and 360.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
zorg1000 said:

I can read fine, even when docked you still have to take into account undocked mode, you're not going to get XBO level performance docked then undock it and still get solid performance and battery life. Also as the gap in docked/undocked mode gets bigger, the harder it will be to optimize for both settings.

Sure, lets agree to disagree then.

Apparently you can't read fine because I had to repeat myself. It's not like it's "Oh NO Alchemist you just read my point wrong..." you clearly weren't paying attention , but whatever. 

 

And I disagree. If Nintendo used pascal and used a better battery, the battery life would be much better even if it used let's say 60% of a new tegra chip or let's say 70% of a new tegra chip. Nintendo surely could us RSD to find a good combination. All these small things add up, but in general Battery could have been much better even with the specs currently leaked they still should have used a better battery for the system.

 

also, while it is true that more work needs to be done in order to make it work for both modes, Unreal Engine 4 DOES make it at least a bit easier to have a basis point for development. We also already know that the Switch is easier to develop for than any other console not accounting for it's two different modes. I imagine that all that would really need to happen is that Nintendo/developers would have to find a good balance depending on the game. That's it. It's not really clear how much more complex it would be compare to let's say developing for both ps4 and ps4 pro. We do know it would probably be MORE COMPLEX, how much is different though. Besides, again, the system is easier to develop for anyways. 

But you know...Nintendo...

Dont be a dick, i knew what you wrote and you didnt have to repeat yourself because it doesnt change what i said, regardless of having a dock that can boost performance, the form factor of Switch still makes that impossible.

So having a more recent/more advanced chip & a bigger battery wouldn't affect the price, size or heat? Like I said earlier, it would have to be a bigger and more expensive device in order to pull that off.

Now it seems like you aren't properly reading, THE BIGGER THE GAP IN POWER BETWEEN DOCK & UNDOCKED MODE, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT WILL BE TO OPTIMIZE FOR BOTH. The rumors say that Switch is easy to develop for in its current form, would that hold true if the gap between docked & undocked mode was significantly greater? Probably not.

 

User was warned for this post ~ CGI



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

Based on what, a handful of people on this site & neogaf?

Can you honestly say you personally know anyone who isn't an avid gamer/tech enthusiast whose perception of Switch has negatively been affected by this leak?

99.99% of the world probably has no idea about this leak or would even have any idea what it means.

I think it's a mistake to assume only 0.01% of gamers are informed about these things. In 1996 maybe, but not today. It is common public knowledge, for example, that PS4 is stronger than Xbox One.

And yeah, I know many people in real life who may not be as into gaming as me but still hear about these things. We live in the information age, word gets around. Back in 2012/2013 more than one friend of mine decided against getting a Wii U when they heard it was struggling to outperfrom PS3 and 360.

We're talking pre-launch rumors, dude. It's not even remotely a stretch to say that 99.99% of consumers will not have known any of this stuff before buying. Most of the information they hear about the Switch will come from Nintendo and associated developers and the way people react to what they put out. The Switch trailer and peoples reactions. The Switch press event and peoples reactions. The Switch tour and peoples reactions. Switch ads and peoples reactions. That's when people will make their minds on the Switch. Not forum banter and not enthusiast rumors. 



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

I think it's a mistake to assume only 0.01% of gamers are informed about these things. In 1996 maybe, but not today. It is common public knowledge, for example, that PS4 is stronger than Xbox One.

And yeah, I know many people in real life who may not be as into gaming as me but still hear about these things. We live in the information age, word gets around. Back in 2012/2013 more than one friend of mine decided against getting a Wii U when they heard it was struggling to outperfrom PS3 and 360.

We're talking pre-launch rumors, dude. It's not even remotely a stretch to say that 99.99% of consumers will not have known any of this stuff before buying. Most of the information they hear about the Switch will come from Nintendo and associated developers and the way people react to what they put out. The Switch trailer and peoples reactions. The Switch press event and peoples reactions. The Switch tour and peoples reactions. Switch ads and peoples reactions. That's when people will make their minds on the Switch. Not forum banter and not enthusiast rumors. 

I'm not saying it's game over just yet. All I mean is, given the amount of hits and traffic on the spec leak articles and the mostly negative reaction to them, I don't think we can safely say it's had no impact. 



curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

Based on what, a handful of people on this site & neogaf?

Can you honestly say you personally know anyone who isn't an avid gamer/tech enthusiast whose perception of Switch has negatively been affected by this leak?

99.99% of the world probably has no idea about this leak or would even have any idea what it means.

I think it's a mistake to assume only 0.01% of gamers are informed about these things. In 1996 maybe, but not today. It is common public knowledge, for example, that PS4 is stronger than Xbox One.

And yeah, I know many people in real life who may not be as into gaming as me but still hear about these things. We live in the information age, word gets around. Back in 2012/2013 more than one friend of mine decided against getting a Wii U when they heard it was struggling to outperform PS3 and 360.

I didnt say gamers, i said the world but anywho lets go with gamers. PS4+XBO+3DS+Vita+Wii U have sold about 165 million, the most powerful of them has about 30% marketshare, of that 30% how many of them do you think bought it specifically because it was the most powerful? 10-20%? That would mean of the 165 million units of hardware sold this generation, only about 5% made their choice because of power.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.