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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I flew too close to the 1TF sun and my Switch wings melted.

SonytendoAmiibo on 21 December 2016
Goodnightmoon said:
SonytendoAmiibo said:

 

I admitted to being pulled into the hype. But I thought the docked Switch would be 600/700 Gflops, not anywhere near PS4. 600/700 Gflops would have got it close enough to Xbox One to see some downscaled current gen ports. Then I would have a choice of at home play with high specs on the PS4 or portable play with lower specs with Switch on current gen titles. Now that choice is gone.

And what does that even means? I personally don't care if the thing is weak if is doing the right things in other aspects, but those numbers don't tell the whole story anyways, X360 has 230 gflops, yet it was weaker than WiiU with 176 gflops, which is weaker than Switch undocked despite this one having 157 gflps, so for all we know those 400gflops can have a close performance to what you were expecting, flops don't tell the whole story, specially when you compre nvidia flops with amd nd when we don't relly know how customomized the chip is, at the very least we know is a extremelly powerful handheld, many times above Vita which was already impressive.

 

I know teraflop measurements are pretty much meaningless but 150 Gflops portable plus more modern architecture still means current gen titles will have a hard time running on Switch. I have greatly lowered my expectations of the systems capability.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

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AngryLittleAlchemist on 21 December 2016
zorg1000 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Here's the thing that annoys me :

If there was a console with which Nintendo NEEDED to get back third parties, this was the one. Don't get me wrong, Nintendo is definitely going to sell more units than the Wii U. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if this sold 40+ Million units by the end of it's life. But if there was a Nintendo console where they could both get third parties on board ANNNNNNND convince people that their third party ports are worth ACTUALLY BUYING ... THIS was the console.

Because look, everyone knows Playstation is the best place for third parties from a power standpoint. But if the console was powerful enough docked to run third party games at 1080p, and run them at 720p like people were expecting on the go...there would be a GENUINELY COMPELLING reason for people who want third parties AND EVEN people who don't even like Nintendo consoles to buy a nintendo system.

But now...it looks like it will be hard to even run games.

People used to always talk about how it didn't matter if Nintendo had third parties or not - they wouldn't sell well. Some used this to defend their quirky design choices for their consoles that were hard to develop for, others used it as a way to bash Nintendo and push the "Nintendoom" narrative. I genuinely do think that if the Switch was at least SOMEWHAT close to the Xbox One in terms of power...it's ports would sell a LOT better than the Wii U versions. Did the Wii U versions sell ok? Ya...SOMETIMES...but usually no.

This would be a console that is NOT ONLY easy to develop for ... but also has a gimmick which attracts people to buying ALL their games on the Switch. A console that both solved the issue of hard to develop for - Nintendo consoles, AND whether or not there was an audience for third parties on a Nintendo console. Sadly, if this rumor is true, the future will be much less certain.

Anybody who thought Switch would be able to handle running multiplats at 1080p was simply an idiot, a ton of games on XBO arent even 1080p, it would physically be impossible to achieve that with the form factor that Switch has. It would have to be the size of a laptop and cost like $500+ in order to achieve that.

PS4/XBO will be close to 3.5 years old and have sold over 80 million by the time Switch releases, the majority of the market who plays the big mainstream western titles is already on these devices and very few would be willing to make the switch (no pun intended) to Switch.

Multiplat titles have never been a major factor in selling hardware for Nintendo in their 30+ years as a hardware manufacturer, they always have been and always will be supplemental titles, as in games you dont buy the hardware for but might buy if they are on the system.

Wrong. First of all, from what I remember most of Xbox One's early ports didn't run well because they capped the ram. Had very little to do with the overall power, if that was the case recenet titles would still be 720p or 900p on Xbox one but most of them run at 1080p as well  because the ram isn't capped anymore. 

 

Second, the number of Tflops isn't the most important thing ever. A newer architecture, Nvidia graphics and exclusive software, as well as a system that's easier to develop for(and most likely will have a less taxing OS) would mean that even if the docked form only ran at 800 Tflops like most people were expecting there would AT LEAST be the possibilty of 1080p ports when docked. remember too, the pascal x chips do run slightly better, enough taht if nintendo wanted to maximize docked usage like they SHOULD BE ALREADY, they could improve things even further with a newer custom pascal chip.  And most likely...it wouldn't drive prices up much AT ALL. Hell, Nvidia probably would have given them a huge discount anyways since they need a gateway past PC gaming.

 

No one was expecting 1080p on the go for multiplats....

 

"PS4/XBO will be close to 3.5 years old and have sold over 80 million by the time Switch releases, the majority of the market who plays the big mainstream western titles is already on these devices and very few would be willing to make the switch (no pun intended) to Switch."

 

I literally just explained why that could and would have changed on  the switch dude...come on. Stop using hte same ol tired ecuse. "It's just not Nintendo". Well for once Nintendo makes a "gimmick" that doesn't just appeal to Nintendo or casual gamers...but appeals to everyone. This could have given them so much third party sales. As much as Playstation? Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised if by 2020, with the original specs we were expecting(no underclock when docked,  Pascal X custom chip, higher clock on the go) for the same price range...they could have surpassed Xbox third party sales.



Frogger on 21 December 2016
curl-6 said:
spemanig said:

No, it would be better. The docked specs are like 3x stronger than Wii U. It's portable that closesly matches the Wii U, and even that is a bit stronger.

1080p takes 2.25 times as many pixels as 720p though, so a lot of your extra power is wiped out right there.

True. That's why I hope they just target 720p docked for multiplats. It's going to look inferior no matter what. Go for 720p inferior instead of 1080p inferior.



zorg1000 on 21 December 2016
curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

Sure a vocal minority of forum goers will complain but the general consumer doesnt care if Switch has 150/400gflops or 250/600gflops if the concept and games appeal to them.

I dunno, I think the days of the vast majority of consumers being technologically illiterate are over. PS4's power advantage over Xbox One, for example, transcended forum goers and became public knowledge, to the detriment of the latter.

No, they certainly still are.

PS4 was going to outsell XBO by a good margin regardless of being more powerful.

Playstation is a strong worldwide brand whereas Xbox is a strong US/UK brand, 360 outsold PS3 by about 20 million in the US/UK while PS3 outsold 360 by about 20 million everywhere else.

Xbox lost literally every advantage it had over PS in the last generation. 360 released a year earlier, had a much lower price, had a casual craze later on, its competitor had some early PR mishaps (get two jobs!!!)

Those are all gone and in some cases reversed, no headstart, launched $100 more expensive, nobody cares about Kinect anymore and now they have their own PR mishaps (always online, Kinect required, DRM issues).

Size might even play a part for some, PS3 & XBO first models were huge in comparison to 360 & PS4.

Im not saying power wasnt somewhat of a factor but if you flipped the specs of PS4 & XBO (everything else remains the same) than we might be looking at something like 47m vs 28m instead of 50m vs 25m.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Frogger on 21 December 2016
curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

Sure a vocal minority of forum goers will complain but the general consumer doesnt care if Switch has 150/400gflops or 250/600gflops if the concept and games appeal to them.

I dunno, I think the days of the vast majority of consumers being technologically illiterate are over. PS4's power advantage over Xbox One, for example, transcended forum goers and became public knowledge, to the detriment of the latter.

PS4's success over the XBO had absolutely nothig to do with the power difference dude. It was entirely to do with XBO's PR disaster before launch. It's not even about being tech literate. People just don't care. People were still buying new PS2 games a few years ago. They don't care about what's more powerful, like at all. They care about what's convenient, accessible, and what's popular.

PS1 won because it had a CD player and better marketing.

PS2 won because it had a DVD player and better marketing.

Wii won because it had fucking phenomenal marketing and was supremely accessible. And because Sony messed up its PR.

PS4 is winning because Wii U and XBO both messed up big time, and it has had good marketing.

Power has absolutely nothing to do with it. PS4 being the most powerful is a happy coincidence. When Scorpio comes out, XBO will be the most powerful. PS4 will still stay on top. Nobody in the mass market cares about power. It's why Macs do so well and why iPhones sell so well. There are always "better" phones, but Apple is popular, convenient, and accessible, so they get away with selling at a premium no other phone brand would dare sell at and expect to sell the same numbers.

Zorg1000 is right. People don't care if the Switch is as weak as rumors say. If Nintendo can make the message that the Switch is the most popular, accessible, convenient gaming machine on the market, it will sell like one. Where him and I disagree is in how multiplatform games factor into that equation. But if the Switch can get most multiplats on weak hardware, the power won't matter.



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AngryLittleAlchemist on 21 December 2016

Zorg1000 is right. People don't care if the Switch is as weak as rumors say. If Nintendo can make the message that the Switch is the most popular, accessible, convenient gaming machine on the market, it will sell like one. Where him and I disagree is in how multiplatform games factor into that equation. But if the Switch can get most multiplats on weak hardware, the power won't matter.

I agree, I just hope the multiplats come. Honestly, I am just complaining about the specs because I want it to be a success to the market, especially to peope buying it as their primary console. I have a PS4 and PC, I can have multiplats on those. I just hope to god that it makes a good impression. Am excited for january 12th. 



zorg1000 on 21 December 2016
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
zorg1000 said:

Anybody who thought Switch would be able to handle running multiplats at 1080p was simply an idiot, a ton of games on XBO arent even 1080p, it would physically be impossible to achieve that with the form factor that Switch has. It would have to be the size of a laptop and cost like $500+ in order to achieve that.

PS4/XBO will be close to 3.5 years old and have sold over 80 million by the time Switch releases, the majority of the market who plays the big mainstream western titles is already on these devices and very few would be willing to make the switch (no pun intended) to Switch.

Multiplat titles have never been a major factor in selling hardware for Nintendo in their 30+ years as a hardware manufacturer, they always have been and always will be supplemental titles, as in games you dont buy the hardware for but might buy if they are on the system.

Wrong. First of all, from what I remember most of Xbox One's early ports didn't run well because they capped the ram. Had very little to do with the overall power, if that was the case recenet titles would still be 720p or 900p on Xbox one but most of them run at 1080p as well  because the ram isn't capped anymore. 

 

Second, the number of Tflops isn't the most important thing ever. A newer architecture, Nvidia graphics and exclusive software, as well as a system that's easier to develop for(and most likely will have a less taxing OS) would mean that even if the docked form only ran at 800 Tflops like most people were expecting there would AT LEAST be the possibilty of 1080p ports when docked. remember too, the pascal x chips do run slightly better, enough taht if nintendo wanted to maximize docked usage like they SHOULD BE ALREADY, they could improve things even further with a newer custom pascal chip.  And most likely...it wouldn't drive prices up much AT ALL. Hell, Nvidia probably would have given them a huge discount anyways since they need a gateway past PC gaming.

 

No one was expecting 1080p on the go for multiplats....

 

"PS4/XBO will be close to 3.5 years old and have sold over 80 million by the time Switch releases, the majority of the market who plays the big mainstream western titles is already on these devices and very few would be willing to make the switch (no pun intended) to Switch."

 

I literally just explained why that could and would have changed on  the switch dude...come on. Stop using hte same ol tired ecuse. "It's just not Nintendo". Well for once Nintendo makes a "gimmick" that doesn't just appeal to Nintendo or casual gamers...but appeals to everyone. This could have given them so much third party sales. As much as Playstation? Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised if by 2020, with the original specs we were expecting(no underclock when docked,  Pascal X custom chip, higher clock on the go) for the same price range...they could have surpassed Xbox third party sales.

Your first two paragraphs dont change my overall point, getting XBO level performance out of Switch's form factor would literally be impossible and you would not get 1080p mulitplats.

No, you did not explain why that could or would change, the 80+ million people who bought a PS4/XBO in 2013-2016 for the mainstream western games like Call of Duty, Destiny, Battlefield, Watch Dogs, FIFA, Madden, Fallout, The Division would not all of a sudden make the move to Switch to play those games.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

AngryLittleAlchemist on 21 December 2016
zorg1000 said:

Your first two paragraphs dont change my overall point, getting XBO level performance out of Switch's form factor would literally be impossible and you would not get 1080p mulitplats.

I literally just said NOT IN ITS FORM FACTOR MODE. jesus Zorg  learn to read man, no offense but that's like the 2nd time I had to point that out.

 

Other stuff is jsut speculation and agree to disagree. I personally don't think it's case closed argument, Nintendo could get back with third parties and get western support, and people would follow. Sure, most Battlefield/Cod players probably wouldn't care about on the go functionality, but I think Watch Dogs 2 and Sports games and Assassin's Creed, as mostly single player games(or games with minimal online usage) would be great for the Switch. 



curl-6 on 21 December 2016
zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

I dunno, I think the days of the vast majority of consumers being technologically illiterate are over. PS4's power advantage over Xbox One, for example, transcended forum goers and became public knowledge, to the detriment of the latter.

No, they certainly still are.

PS4 was going to outsell XBO by a good margin regardless of being more powerful.

Playstation is a strong worldwide brand whereas Xbox is a strong US/UK brand, 360 outsold PS3 by about 20 million in the US/UK while PS3 outsold 360 by about 20 million everywhere else.

Xbox lost literally every advantage it had over PS in the last generation. 360 released a year earlier, had a much lower price, had a casual craze later on, its competitor had some early PR mishaps (get two jobs!!!)

Those are all gone and in some cases reversed, no headstart, launched $100 more expensive, nobody cares about Kinect anymore and now they have their own PR mishaps (always online, Kinect required, DRM issues).

Size might even play a part for some, PS3 & XBO first models were huge in comparison to 360 & PS4.

Im not saying power wasnt somewhat of a factor but if you flipped the specs of PS4 & XBO (everything else remains the same) than we might be looking at something like 47m vs 28m instead of 50m vs 25m.

Even among non-hardcore gamers, Xbox One and Wii U got the reputation of being "weak" consoles while PS4 got the reputation of being more powerful and better, and that helped PS4 and hindered Wii U/Xbone in terms of sales. If Switch likewise gets a reputation as being "weak" that will hurt it. The recent leak has already negatively affected consumer perception of Switch.



zorg1000 on 21 December 2016
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
zorg1000 said:

Your first two paragraphs dont change my overall point, getting XBO level performance out of Switch's form factor would literally be impossible and you would not get 1080p mulitplats.

I literally just said NOT IN ITS FORM FACTOR MODE. jesus Zorg  learn to read man, no offense but that's like the 2nd time I had to point that out.

 

Other stuff is jsut speculation and agree to disagree. I personally don't think it's case closed argument, Nintendo could get back with third parties and get western support, and people would follow. Sure, most Battlefield/Cod players probably wouldn't care about on the go functionality, but I think Watch Dogs 2 and Sports games and Assassin's Creed, as mostly single player games(or games with minimal online usage) would be great for the Switch. 

I can read fine, even when docked you still have to take into account undocked mode, you're not going to get XBO level performance docked then undock it and still get solid performance and battery life. Also as the gap in docked/undocked mode gets bigger, the harder it will be to optimize for both settings.

Sure, lets agree to disagree then.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.