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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I flew too close to the 1TF sun and my Switch wings melted.

SonytendoAmiibo said:

So what you are trying to tell us non-technophile neanderthals is that trying to use teraflops as a measurement of system power simply doesn't work because there are just too many variables involved. The days of comparing 8 bit vs. 16 bit have been over for decades and there is no easy way to make comparisons anymore. Maybe someone needs to come up with an easy to understand grading system for these chips so they are easier to compare. Thanks for the info. 

I don't want to call anyone names :) You got my point exactly -- there are too many variables that make up the various facets of the graphics chip/card. Think of the specifications of the videocard as paper specs but they don't always translate into real world performance. I'll prove it to you even if you don't know anything about technical specs. Just follow along on this one:

AMD Graphics Core 1.1 Architecture R9 290X : 2816 shaders (AMD calls them Stream Processors) @ 1000mhz => 5.63Tflops, 512-bit memory bus, GDDR5 320GB/sec memory bandwidth

NV GTX980Ti Maxwell architecture : 2816 shaders (NV calls them CUDA cores) @ 1000mhz with 1050mhz Boost => 5.63-5.91Tflops, 384-bit memory bus, GDDR5 336GB/sec memory bandwidth

http://hwbench.com/vgas/radeon-r9-290x-vs-geforce-gtx-980-ti

Let's say there were 2 consoles with these GPU specifications: Console #1: 5.63Tflops, 320GB/sec memory bandwidth vs. Console #2: 5.63-5.91Tflops and 336GB/sec memory bandwidth. Using these top-level specifications, a lot of people could erroneously conclude that Console #2 is at best 5.91Tflops / 5.63Tflops = 5% faster. 

In reality, GTX980Ti is 38-39% faster than the R9 290X (100% / 72-73%):

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti/31.html

You see why taking 1 specifiation, in this case the Arithmetic Logic Unit (GPU clock speed x Stream Processors/Shaders/CUDA cores x 2 ops/clock cycle) leads to incorrect conclusions?

It's not possible to assess how powerful the Switch is relative to the Wii U or XB1 using TeraFlops because the Switch uses Maxwell GPU Architecture, the Wii U uses VLIW-5 (Very Long Instruction Word architecture) and Xbox One uses Graphics Core Next Architecture.

All of these architectures have a different Performance Per Clock, or often described as Instructions Per Cycle (IPC). 

It gets even more confusing since the paper specs also cannot be compared. For example, 2014 Maxwell's memory bandwidth is 33% more efficient than 2012 Kepler's. That means the 25.6GB/sec memory bandwidth of the Switch is "equivalent" to 34GB/sec of NV's 2012 GPU architecture: 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8526/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-review/3

To summary, I am not defending the specs of the Switch as clearly it's a handheld console with a bonus feature to connect it to the HDTV. My point is don't try to directly compare XB1/PS4 vs. Wii U vs. the Switch using Tflops as it's too inaccurate of a comparison. 



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BlueFalcon said:
SonytendoAmiibo said:

So what you are trying to tell us non-technophile neanderthals is that trying to use teraflops as a measurement of system power simply doesn't work because there are just too many variables involved. The days of comparing 8 bit vs. 16 bit have been over for decades and there is no easy way to make comparisons anymore. Maybe someone needs to come up with an easy to understand grading system for these chips so they are easier to compare. Thanks for the info. 

I don't want to call anyone names :) You got my point exactly -- there are too many variables that make up the various facets of the graphics chip/card. Think of the specifications of the videocard as paper specs but they don't always translate into real world performance. I'll prove it to you even if you don't know anything about technical specs. Just follow along on this one:

AMD Graphics Core 1.1 Architecture R9 290X : 2816 shaders (AMD calls them Stream Processors) @ 1000mhz => 5.63Tflops, 512-bit memory bus, GDDR5 320GB/sec memory bandwidth

NV GTX980Ti Maxwell architecture : 2816 shaders (NV calls them CUDA cores) @ 1000mhz with 1050mhz Boost => 5.63-5.91Tflops, 384-bit memory bus, GDDR5 336GB/sec memory bandwidth

http://hwbench.com/vgas/radeon-r9-290x-vs-geforce-gtx-980-ti

Let's say there were 2 consoles with these GPU specifications: Console #1: 5.63Tflops, 320GB/sec memory bandwidth vs. Console #2: 5.63-5.91Tflops and 336GB/sec memory bandwidth. Using these top-level specifications, a lot of people could erroneously conclude that Console #2 is at best 5.91Tflops / 5.63Tflops = 5% faster. 

In reality, GTX980Ti is 38-39% faster than the R9 290X (100% / 72-73%):

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti/31.html

You see why taking 1 specifiation, in this case the Arithmetic Logic Unit (GPU clock speed x Stream Processors/Shaders/CUDA cores x 2 ops/clock cycle) leads to incorrect conclusions?

It's not possible to assess how powerful the Switch is relative to the Wii U or XB1 using TeraFlops because the Switch uses Maxwell GPU Architecture, the Wii U uses VLIW-5 (Very Long Instruction Word architecture) and Xbox One uses Graphics Core Next Architecture.

All of these architectures have a different Performance Per Clock, or often described as Instructions Per Cycle (IPC). 

 

So how many teraflops the Switch is has absolutely no bearing on its real world performance. We will have to wait until the system is in peoples hands before its performance can be ascertained. Maybe there is still hope. I'm still getting Switch day one anyways because at least it will be last gen console power in a portable device. Thanks again for the info.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

same here, I crushed to the ground and I am still in coma :P

feels like Nintendo is trolling us, showing footage that hypes people, only to came afterwards like ''oh, did I mention that the actual thing is not as good?''

happened when they announced 3D movies for the 3DS, the Zelda footage they showed for WiiU, Battlefield, Metro, not to mention that Skyrim might also not even happen, and now the latest: ''NS is our next home console'', OMG and the goddamn pulse rate thing lol :S

seriously Ninty, stop underestimating people's consciousness, and most importantly stop making bullshit statements like the latest



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
same here, I crushed to the ground and I am still in coma :P

feels like Nintendo is trolling us, showing footage that hypes people, only to came afterwards like ''oh, did I mention that the actual thing is not as good?''

happened when they announced 3D movies for the 3DS, the Zelda footage they showed for WiiU, Battlefield, Metro, not to mention that Skyrim might also not even happen, and now the latest: ''NS is our next home console'', OMG and the goddamn pulse rate thing lol :S

seriously Ninty, stop underestimating people's consciousness, and most importantly stop making bullshit statements like the latest

 

As a long time Nintendo fan I'm starting to think that my relationship with them is a sadomasochistic one. The problem is I dont enjoy pain.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

SonytendoAmiibo said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
same here, I crushed to the ground and I am still in coma :P

feels like Nintendo is trolling us, showing footage that hypes people, only to came afterwards like ''oh, did I mention that the actual thing is not as good?''

happened when they announced 3D movies for the 3DS, the Zelda footage they showed for WiiU, Battlefield, Metro, not to mention that Skyrim might also not even happen, and now the latest: ''NS is our next home console'', OMG and the goddamn pulse rate thing lol :S

seriously Ninty, stop underestimating people's consciousness, and most importantly stop making bullshit statements like the latest

 

As a long time Nintendo fan I'm starting to think that my relationship with them is a sadomasochistic one. The problem is I dont enjoy pain.

 

Dude.... EVEN IF THESE RUMORS ARE TRUE...WAIT TILL THE ANNOUNCEMENTS. 

Also, I doubt you would have bought third parties on the console anyways. You clearly own a Playstation and even if it was "close to Xbox One" it wouldn't be as good as a regular playstation 4 edition. 



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dark_gh0st_b0y said:
same here, I crushed to the ground and I am still in coma :P

feels like Nintendo is trolling us, showing footage that hypes people, only to came afterwards like ''oh, did I mention that the actual thing is not as good?''

happened when they announced 3D movies for the 3DS, the Zelda footage they showed for WiiU, Battlefield, Metro, not to mention that Skyrim might also not even happen, and now the latest: ''NS is our next home console'', OMG and the goddamn pulse rate thing lol :S

seriously Ninty, stop underestimating people's consciousness, and most importantly stop making bullshit statements like the latest

Except everything they have shown on the console is real, the only doubt was about Skyrim but right now is pretty obvious that is coming, so the problem here is not with Nintendo is with you, you created yourself very unrealistic expectations, an hybrid with Ps4 power that is light, small, with good power consumption to not kill the battery in 20 minutes and everything for less thn 300$? yeah... blame Nintendo now.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
SonytendoAmiibo said:

 

As a long time Nintendo fan I'm starting to think that my relationship with them is a sadomasochistic one. The problem is I dont enjoy pain.

 

Dude.... EVEN IF THESE RUMORS ARE TRUE...WAIT TILL THE ANNOUNCEMENTS. 

Also, I doubt you would have bought third parties on the console anyways. You clearly own a Playstation and even if it was "close to Xbox One" it wouldn't be as good as a regular playstation 4 edition. 

 

Yes, I am cooling down and lowering my expectations. At least it will be last gen power in portable mode so maybe we can get some portable versions of last gens blockbusters. That would be nice. And yeah, thank god I have a PS4 for multi-plats.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

SonytendoAmiibo said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

 

Dude.... EVEN IF THESE RUMORS ARE TRUE...WAIT TILL THE ANNOUNCEMENTS. 

Also, I doubt you would have bought third parties on the console anyways. You clearly own a Playstation and even if it was "close to Xbox One" it wouldn't be as good as a regular playstation 4 edition. 

 

Yes, I am cooling down and lowering my expectations. At least it will be last gen power in portable mode so maybe we can get some portable versions of last gens blockbusters. That would be nice. And yeah, thank god I have a PS4 for multi-plats.

Except it's not last gen. Wii U is a current  generation console that just so happens to not be as powerful as the Xbox One and the Playstation 4. If it runs like an overclocked Wii U undocked and is 4x stronger docked, that's a lot of power. What i'm more upset at is that it's obvious that there are work arounds for this "innovative" design. I still think that, if these rumors are true, Nintendo could have made a more powerful system for the same exact price bracket they are going to be marketing it for. Tegra X custom Pascal chip, 60% mobile, overclocked in docked form(with the extra fan and all). Really seems like they are being to precautios, but maybe i'm just dumb. 



Goodnightmoon said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
same here, I crushed to the ground and I am still in coma :P

feels like Nintendo is trolling us, showing footage that hypes people, only to came afterwards like ''oh, did I mention that the actual thing is not as good?''

happened when they announced 3D movies for the 3DS, the Zelda footage they showed for WiiU, Battlefield, Metro, not to mention that Skyrim might also not even happen, and now the latest: ''NS is our next home console'', OMG and the goddamn pulse rate thing lol :S

seriously Ninty, stop underestimating people's consciousness, and most importantly stop making bullshit statements like the latest

Except everything they have shown on the console is real, the only doubt was about Skyrim but right now is pretty obvious that is coming, so the problem here is not with Nintendo is with you, you created yourself very unrealistic expectations, an hybrid with Ps4 power that is light, small, with good power consumption to not kill the battery in 20 minutes and everything for less thn 300$? yeah... blame Nintendo now.

 

I admitted to being pulled into the hype. But I thought the docked Switch would be 600/700 Gflops, not anywhere near PS4. 600/700 Gflops would have got it close enough to Xbox One to see some downscaled current gen ports. Then I would have a choice of at home play with high specs on the PS4 or portable play with lower specs with Switch on current gen titles. Now that choice is gone.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

SonytendoAmiibo said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Except everything they have shown on the console is real, the only doubt was about Skyrim but right now is pretty obvious that is coming, so the problem here is not with Nintendo is with you, you created yourself very unrealistic expectations, an hybrid with Ps4 power that is light, small, with good power consumption to not kill the battery in 20 minutes and everything for less thn 300$? yeah... blame Nintendo now.

 

I admitted to being pulled into the hype. But I thought the docked Switch would be 600/700 Gflops, not anywhere near PS4. 600/700 Gflops would have got it close enough to Xbox One to see some downscaled current gen ports. Then I would have a choice of at home play with high specs on the PS4 or portable play with lower specs with Switch on current gen titles. Now that choice is gone.

Uhm...I know the numbers are intimidating and all(and yes...the number of Tflops IS important), but if you really think that's all taht matters it isn't. The OS will probably be less consuming of the RAM than the PS4 or Xbox One, it will be easier to develop for than those consoles, and it supports all current engines. It will probably have some other Nvidia technologies that will allow it to have current gen ports, even if they're at worse resolutions(like 720p).