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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Switch to have VR: the gamepad is also a VR screen.

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Nintendo Switch to have VR: the gamepad is also a VR screen.

Cool idea. 79 56.43%
 
Bad idea. 61 43.57%
 
Total:140
SonytendoAmiibo on 18 December 2016

Here is a very interesting Gear VR game with a heroine who is a blonde, blue jumpsuit wearing space bounty hunter. Sound familiar? This game is exactly what a Switch VR Metroid game would look like, and its fun for only $7 bucks.

Yes, I am looking down at her boobs.



   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

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Goodnightmoon on 18 December 2016
SonytendoAmiibo said:
Here is a very interesting Gear VR game with a heroine who is a blonde, blue jumpsuit wearing space bounty hunter. Sound familiar? This game is exactly what a Switch VR Metroid game would look like, and its fun for only $7 bucks.

Yes, I am looking down at her boobs.

Metroid has never looked this generic outside of Federation Force.



SonytendoAmiibo on 18 December 2016
Goodnightmoon said:
SonytendoAmiibo said:
Here is a very interesting Gear VR game with a heroine who is a blonde, blue jumpsuit wearing space bounty hunter. Sound familiar? This game is exactly what a Switch VR Metroid game would look like, and its fun for only $7 bucks.

Yes, I am looking down at her boobs.

Metroid has never looked this generic outside of Federation Force.

 

Well, this is only a $7 dollar game from the Oculus store running on Gear VR with my S7 phone. If Nintendo makes a VR HMD for the Switch it would put this game to shame. But this Space Stalker game is really nice for the price. It has more modes than EVE: Gunjack. Also the graphics look way better in 3D VR.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

numberwang on 18 December 2016



Frogger on 18 December 2016
SvennoJ said:
spemanig said:

No, I have a lot of faith in the mass market to not care. The Wiimote still has calibration issues, and launched without motion plus. People were sold on motion controls because of Waggle Tennis, Waggle Bowling, and Waggle Golf. I'm not saying that VR doesn't have huge problems. I'm saying that VR has advanced enough as a technology to reach an equilibrium of quality and accessibility where it can become a mass market product. No one yet has realized that potential so far. This patent tells me that Nintendo can, and intends to.

Again, I'm not saying that the Switch VR at 720p would offer a great VR experience. In fact, I'm actively saying that it would offer the worst VR experience by far in a lot of ways. What I'm saying is that it would offer a good enough VR experience at a cheap enough entry point with a compelling enough line up of exclusive software for it to sell insanely well, which would be great for VR as a whole because currently there isn't a single VR product on the market that can do that.

PSVR, Vive, and Oculus are too concerned about quality of tech and not concerned enough about accessibility, while lower end products like Gear VR and Google Cardboard are too concerned about accessibility and not concerned enough about quality of software. Switch VR would meet both sides somewhere in the middle and reach that equilibrium.

The key word is "enough." It needs to be easy and comfortable enough long term. Switch VR can do enough. Even at 720p it can. Just as a sidenote, any of the shoulder buttons on the inward-facing sides of the Joy-Cons could act as an easily accessible dedicated reset viewpoint button without sacrificing a traditional layout.

Nintendo could launch the HMD bundled with Pilotwongs VR for $99. It would immediately communicate what's attractive and awe-inspiring about VR while offering experiences that range from comfortable to intense so people can easily adjust to their new "VR legs." It's familiar in premise, so it wouldn't alienate the mass market by being "too gamey." In other words, Wii Sports resonated because it was about sports and everyone is familiar with sports. Wii Fit is about fitness and everyone is familiar fitness. Nintendogs was about puppies and everyone is familiar with puppies. In Pilotwings, you fly airplanes (and other such realworld flight things). Instantly familiar. This familiarity made those games accessible not only because they were simple to play, but simple to understand when it comes to premise.

It wouldn't need to be graphically intense or even realistic, so they could focus instead on locking the framerate at 60fps. To make it even more compelling, they could include both local and online multiplayer, because that social aspect is what makes products like these shine. Wii Sports had it, Wii Fit had it by comparing profiles, Nintendogs had it, and Nintendo cares tremendously about VRs application in a social setting, so this or whatever they do would have it as well.

That would immediately give VR its Wii Sports. Its mainstream hook that opens the door for VR tech in the mass market. After that, all they'd need is a good launch line up, and a compelling line up of software coming down the line. Being only $99ish already does so much of the work for them. Launch with:

- Pilotwings VR Bundle

- Excitebike VR

- Waverace VR

- Metroid Prime VR

- A bunch of 3rd party VR games

And then release other franchises down the line. I've already mentioned Star Fox, Mario Kart, F-Zero, and Punch-Out, but they can go even further. Kid Icarus, Eternal Darkness, Endless Ocean, etc. Miyamoto even stated in an interview that Star Fox was an IP they'd consider for VR. He also said that the reason they haven't made another F-Zero is because he couldn't think of an original spin to make it different. VR would do that for it.

That's just my fear that the mass market indeed doesn't care. Play the new gimmick in droves and throw it by the side as happened to motion controls. Inflate the bubble and crash. Then ignore it as an already been there done that fad when the tech actually becomes good enough to be comfortable to play for longer periods.

One big disadvantage is the lack of a social screen, wihout which it gets really difficult to get my kids going on psvr. But perhaps the switch can communicate with the docking station and send a compressed stream over.

I hope to see more details in Januari about the screen and maybe some VR info if they want to go that route. Positional tracking is half the experience. 360 3D videos are nice, yet without positional tracking it's not VR, just a 3D viewer. But perhaps 3 axis VR is indeed good enough for the mass market. Perhaps the headset will have inside out headtracking. MS is promising that for the Windows 10 headsets coming out soonish, so Nintendo can probably do that too.

Motion controls were trying to replace traditional controls in all games. VR is completely different.

There's really nothing I can say to smooth over your fear. It's simply not the same situation. The jump to VR is like the jump from 2D to 3D. It's not "fad-able." It's just about doing it.

Yeah, I was actually thinking about that. We know that the Switch can somewhat communicate with the dock when undocked because of the patents, but nothing suggests that there is streaming tech, so that would be a very valid issue, especially because Nintendo has specifically criticized VR for not being social.

One thing they could do is have a wireless dongle come with the HMD that can connect with the Switch Dock and stream the image that way. I'm pretty sure that stuff is pretty cheap now, so that would solve that. If that's the case, I guarentee you there will be asynchronous gameplay with many Switch VR games that use the TV screen as an interactive part of the experience.

Can you explain inside out head tracking to me, please? Something tells me that if Nintendo planned on using tech like that, it would have been detailed in the HMD patent. I expect an external headtracking solution like everyone else.



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Frogger on 18 December 2016

SvennoJ said:

Positional tracking is half the experience. 360 3D videos are nice, yet without positional tracking it's not VR, just a 3D viewer. But perhaps 3 axis VR is indeed good enough for the mass market. Perhaps the headset will have inside out headtracking. MS is promising that for the Windows 10 headsets coming out soonish, so Nintendo can probably do that too.

Looking at the tech, it would require a camera on the headset, right? While awesome, it would drive the price of the headset, so I'm not so sure about it. It truly depends on what Nintendo can do with regards to keeping the price low. If they can't, they'll probable do something else. I don't think you need to worry about Switch VR not having head tracking, though. I'm sure there will be some kind of solution.

EDIT: But who knows. Maybe the tech is cheaper than I think. MS is targeting $299 for their headset including the tech, so that's $100 cheaper. I keep saying that the HMD would be $99, but that's just the example price ceiling I chose because it's the price of the Gear VR. Google Cardboard is like $5, so Nintendo obviously has a lot of leeway for pricing in this regard. A Nintendo HMD would be cheaper because the Switch is the display, so maybe they can hit that $100 sweetspot with inside out headtracking after all.



Pyro as Bill on 18 December 2016
spemanig said:

Looking at the tech, it would require a camera on the headset, right? While awesome, it would drive the price of the headset, so I'm not so sure about it. It truly depends on what Nintendo can do with regards to keeping the price low. If they can't, they'll probable do something else. I don't think you need to worry about Switch VR not having head tracking, though. I'm sure there will be some kind of solution.

EDIT: But who knows. Maybe the tech is cheaper than I think. MS is targeting $299 for their headset including the tech, so that's $100 cheaper. I keep saying that the HMD would be $99, but that's just the example price ceiling I chose because it's the price of the Gear VR. Google Cardboard is like $5, so Nintendo obviously has a lot of leeway for pricing in this regard. A Nintendo HMD would be cheaper because the Switch is the display, so maybe they can hit that $100 sweetspot with inside out headtracking after all.

Head Tracking for Desktop VR Displays using the WiiRemote : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

Switch has cameras/sensors already. The ir pointer controls rely on ir camera/ir source. Calibrating a headset/headtracking is the same as calibrating motion plus.

One of the features of new-3DSXL is head/eye tracking.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

SvennoJ on 18 December 2016
spemanig said:

Motion controls were trying to replace traditional controls in all games. VR is completely different.

There's really nothing I can say to smooth over your fear. It's simply not the same situation. The jump to VR is like the jump from 2D to 3D. It's not "fad-able." It's just about doing it.

Yeah, I was actually thinking about that. We know that the Switch can somewhat communicate with the dock when undocked because of the patents, but nothing suggests that there is streaming tech, so that would be a very valid issue, especially because Nintendo has specifically criticized VR for not being social.

One thing they could do is have a wireless dongle come with the HMD that can connect with the Switch Dock and stream the image that way. I'm pretty sure that stuff is pretty cheap now, so that would solve that. If that's the case, I guarentee you there will be asynchronous gameplay with many Switch VR games that use the TV screen as an interactive part of the experience.

Can you explain inside out head tracking to me, please? Something tells me that if Nintendo planned on using tech like that, it would have been detailed in the HMD patent. I expect an external headtracking solution like everyone else.

Inside out tracking simply means the headset looks at its surroundings to figure out how it is moving, instead of relying on external observation like PSVR, OR and Vive to place it in 3D space. Thanks to gravity you don't need any external observation for pitching and tilting. For rotation you have gyroscopes which isn't as reliable and needs some reference point to combat drift. A magnetic sensor (compass) can help but isn't that accurate. 3D positioning can be done with accelerometers yet those also need some extra reference points to combat drift.

Inside out can be as simple as having a cheap camera on the headset or Switch with a hole where the camera is. The software will need to scan the room, and find some good identifiable anchor points to use. The wii mote relies on the sensor bar which is nothing more than 2 infrared LEDs. There's a camera inside the wii mote that films those dots, thus inside out tracking. Ofcourse that only works if you point the wii mote at the sensor bar, you would either need cameras all around the headset, or sensor bars all around the room. MS uses a simplified version of Kinect for inside out tracking, mapping the 3D environment around it. Perhaps there are other ways too.

Actually you can get pretty far with just a simple camera. If you have good gyroscopes and accelerometers you only really need it to compensate for drift. Two simple infrared LEDs on the docking station could be enough of an achor point. It doesn't have to be in view all the time for a good enough experience, assuming that most of the time you'll be facing forward. Or bring back the sensor bar. Does the switch have a camera on the back?



Frogger on 18 December 2016
Pyro as Bill said:

Head Tracking for Desktop VR Displays using the WiiRemote : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

Switch has cameras/sensors already. The ir pointer controls rely on ir camera/ir source. Calibrating a headset/headtracking is the same as calibrating motion plus.

One of the features of new-3DSXL is head/eye tracking.

That wouldn't work for Switch. The Switch base unit doesn't have cameras/sensors. Any of that stuff would need to be in the HMD.



Frogger on 18 December 2016
SvennoJ said:
spemanig said:

Motion controls were trying to replace traditional controls in all games. VR is completely different.

There's really nothing I can say to smooth over your fear. It's simply not the same situation. The jump to VR is like the jump from 2D to 3D. It's not "fad-able." It's just about doing it.

Yeah, I was actually thinking about that. We know that the Switch can somewhat communicate with the dock when undocked because of the patents, but nothing suggests that there is streaming tech, so that would be a very valid issue, especially because Nintendo has specifically criticized VR for not being social.

One thing they could do is have a wireless dongle come with the HMD that can connect with the Switch Dock and stream the image that way. I'm pretty sure that stuff is pretty cheap now, so that would solve that. If that's the case, I guarentee you there will be asynchronous gameplay with many Switch VR games that use the TV screen as an interactive part of the experience.

Can you explain inside out head tracking to me, please? Something tells me that if Nintendo planned on using tech like that, it would have been detailed in the HMD patent. I expect an external headtracking solution like everyone else.

Inside out tracking simply means the headset looks at its surroundings to figure out how it is moving, instead of relying on external observation like PSVR, OR and Vive to place it in 3D space. Thanks to gravity you don't need any external observation for pitching and tilting. For rotation you have gyroscopes which isn't as reliable and needs some reference point to combat drift. A magnetic sensor (compass) can help but isn't that accurate. 3D positioning can be done with accelerometers yet those also need some extra reference points to combat drift.

Inside out can be as simple as having a cheap camera on the headset or Switch with a hole where the camera is. The software will need to scan the room, and find some good identifiable anchor points to use. The wii mote relies on the sensor bar which is nothing more than 2 infrared LEDs. There's a camera inside the wii mote that films those dots, thus inside out tracking. Ofcourse that only works if you point the wii mote at the sensor bar, you would either need cameras all around the headset, or sensor bars all around the room. MS uses a simplified version of Kinect for inside out tracking, mapping the 3D environment around it. Perhaps there are other ways too.

Actually you can get pretty far with just a simple camera. If you have good gyroscopes and accelerometers you only really need it to compensate for drift. Two simple infrared LEDs on the docking station could be enough of an achor point. It doesn't have to be in view all the time for a good enough experience, assuming that most of the time you'll be facing forward. Or bring back the sensor bar. Does the switch have a camera on the back?

Okay, thanks for explaining. Rumors say that the Switch has no camera, so it would need to be in the HMD. While that would work perfectly, something tells me we won't see such advanced software tech on the HMD. I think you're more likely to see the infrared solution you detailed, with the Switch's gyroscopes and accelerometers. Just because there's nothing like that in the patent.

That being said, inside out would definitely allow for an experience that matches more closely with Nintendo's social perspective as it could allow players to see their surroundings while wearing the headset, so who knows.