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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump: 'Nobody Really Knows' If Climate Change Is Real

Shadow1980 said:

Slimebeast said:
I like his attitude. That's an honest, humble statement, because it's fact that nobody really knows.

The predictions by the international panel for climate change has this far been wrong, and constantly overestimated the temperature. The models still don't work. We don't know the true climate sensitivity of CO2 yet.

There's nothing "honest" about claiming that scientists are engaging in a hoax. There's nothing "humble" about implying that you know better than the real experts that have dedicated their lives to their field. And while there's still a lot of uncertainty about the potential effects of global warming, we've eliminated the uncertainty about the cause. Humans are the cause.

There's a meme in the right-wing about "poison M&Ms" being used to justify anti-Muslim, immigration policies, but I find it odd that, even if there's only a 1% chance of a worst-case scenario in regards to global warming, they shrug and go "Meh. What do the scientists know? They're all liars, anyway." The cognitive dissonance is staggering. Terrorists imbedded in immigrants fleeing a warzone? Totally plausible and worth taking every measure to prevent. Scientists warn that downtown Miami, Manhattan, New Orleans, the Maldives, and half of Bangladesh, among other places, could be permanently underwater by the end of the century? "ALARMISM! CHICKEN LITTLES EVERYWHERE! THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! LIBERAL SCIENCE IS A SOCIALIST PLOT!"

lol "scientists warn that downtown Miami, Manhattan, New Orleans, the Maldives, and half of Bangladesh permanently under water". There's zero chance for that to happen with a sea level rise of one or two meter.

It's those kinds of ridiculous claims that in turn make the sceptic side reject everything.



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Chris Hu said:

Having health issues and dying are two completely things again its much easier to die from extreme heat then extreme cold. 

Gotta love not reading the article ... 

the-pi-guy said:

No, it doesn't mean the model doesn't work. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

 

Weather is a very complicated thing.  Kinda hard to test if climate change causes hurricanes....  

Doesn't mean the model is wrong, could just mean that we need to include more data in our model.  

There's really no other conclusion ... 

If data doesn't support the assertion then the model is wrong ... 

It's hard to prove if a theory is correct but it's easy to see it's wrong when the teensy tiniest of a disagreement will destroy it ... 



Do you care about climate change? It seems few people do...

http://data.myworld2015.org/

UN Poll Shows Climate Change Is the Lowest of All Global Concerns

Only when the surveys are broken down between rich and poor countries does “climate change” creep higher up the list. In poor countries it becomes even less of a concern.

 People even consider their choice of smartphone more important...

 

 



global cooling, i mean global warming, i mean climate change, i mean global cooling again, i mean its all the co2s fault. oh please. they cant even keep their science straight. when they have actual facts and answers and dont have to resort to fudging data maybe more people will take them seriously. until than all these cap and trade deals, and kyoto deals just hold the US and West back while giving free reign to others. a joke



Pemalite said:
Flilix said:

Apparently, most of these people seem to think that scientists say that climate change will destroy the earth.

Sometimes God lets us suffer (because he loves us? There was a reason for our suffering, but I can't remember), but he would never completly destroy his earth.

Luckily, I don't know any of these people in real life.

To assume that a particular God is going to interfere with "Earth" is a baseless assumption, ignoring the fact there is no evidence to support the existence of a deity anyway. - Regardless of which of the several thousand Gods you believe in.

This Earth will eventually be destroyed when Sol (Our Sun) becomes a Red Giant. Our Atmosphere, oceans, everything, will be evaporated. - It is just a matter of time, not if. - And there is nothing any of the thousands of Gods that various people believe in, will do to stop it.
The Suns fuel is finite.

***********

As for Climate Change. It is real. Majority of scientists, weather researches, institutions/organizations/governments support it's happening.

There is undeniable proof.

We have records from Tree rings that points to increases in carbon.
We have records in our Arctic regions via Ice-pole gathering that points to increases of Carbon and other gases.
We have recorded what gases take up what amount in our atmosphere for decades, which has seen constitent increases in Carbon.
We have recorded increases in sea levels.
We have recorded increases in carbonic acid in our oceans.
We have recoded increases in desertification.
We have recorded average increases in temperature.
We have recorded increases in catastrophic weather events.

We can observe the effect that Carbon has in trapping thermal radiation in a scientific laboratory. Ergo. Carbon would have the *exact* same effect in our atmosphere trapping thermal radiation from our Sun.

The only people who can deny Climate Change are idiots or who have an ulterior motive. (Aka. Money.)
Trump is clearly both, an idiot and has an ulterior motive. (Business.)

And why dont they include sun activity, and the role the sun plays? I mean it is the source of our heat right? But lets forget about that and focus on a non harmful gas that feeds plants. If i'm not mistaken at one point the sarah desert was at one point not a desert, but it is now and that happened before the industrial revolution. who is to blame for that one?



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I want to ask those of you who accuse scientists of being politicized. Can't it go both ways?

Why isn't the opposition politicizing the same number of scientists that publish the same amount of research that push back against environmentalists? It can be done easily, since there are enough people who have enough money who'd like to continue to sell/buy fossil fuels. If they believe "real" science is possibly on their side, they should be participating in politicization process, but they are not. Why?



thranx said:
global cooling, i mean global warming, i mean climate change, i mean global cooling again, i mean its all the co2s fault. oh please. they cant even keep their science straight. when they have actual facts and answers and dont have to resort to fudging data maybe more people will take them seriously. until than all these cap and trade deals, and kyoto deals just hold the US and West back while giving free reign to others. a joke

Global cooling? Never heard of.
Global warming and climate change are, in this case, the same thing. If the earth is getting hotter, the climate is changing. This is indeed the result of CO2 emissions.

There are plenty of actual facts, and most people take the scientists seriously. But some people don't even bother looking them up, most of them don't even know how global warming works.



Flilix said:
thranx said:
global cooling, i mean global warming, i mean climate change, i mean global cooling again, i mean its all the co2s fault. oh please. they cant even keep their science straight. when they have actual facts and answers and dont have to resort to fudging data maybe more people will take them seriously. until than all these cap and trade deals, and kyoto deals just hold the US and West back while giving free reign to others. a joke

Global cooling? Never heard of.
Global warming and climate change are, in this case, the same thing. If the earth is getting hotter, the climate is changing. This is indeed the result of CO2 emissions.

There are plenty of actual facts, and most people take the scientists seriously. But some people don't even bother looking them up, most of them don't even know how global warming works.

Ha ha ha. Never heard of it. You must really research the science than.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

And yes of course they downplay it. In hindsight everything is clear, just like gobal cooling, global warming will be looked at as a joke. Especially since the evidence just inst there. But hey lets kill our economies over it and let worse polluters take charge will we hurt ourselves

Edit: sorry didn't read your whole post. It went from global warming to climate change because the eveidence isn't there. there is a reason the public doesn't care, its not affecting them. All thats been happening is wordplay



SvennoJ said:
mrstickball said:
The irony is that with everything Trump says about climate change... With his endorsement of fast-tracking nuclear energy, especially Gen IV reactors, America will likely be a lot cleaner and better off than what it'd be if we continued to go to renewables + NatGas for baseline and backup systems.

True, Nuclear should be able to tide us over until fushion becomes economically viable.
But at the same time he wants to increase fracking and fossil fuels in general, competing nuclear and renewables out of the market.

You need fracking even for renewables. When wind/solar don't run, you need backups, and combined cycle gas plants are the most favored for that. Additionally, the lower gas prices go, the quicker coal gets phased out. Gas is at least 50% cleaner than coal, so it'd help quite a bit, among other things.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

numberwang said:

Do you care about climate change? It seems few people do...

http://data.myworld2015.org/

UN Poll Shows Climate Change Is the Lowest of All Global Concerns

Only when the surveys are broken down between rich and poor countries does “climate change” creep higher up the list. In poor countries it becomes even less of a concern.

 People even consider their choice of smartphone more important...

 

 

At least they all agree they need to be better educated on the subject :)