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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - *Spoilers* Pokemon Sun and Moon's Successor Games

 

What is the most likely scenario?

Red/Blue sequel 13 19.12%
 
Sun2/Moon2 7 10.29%
 
Stars! 43 63.24%
 
Gen 8? 5 7.35%
 
Total:68
Ka-pi96 said:
spemanig said:

What liberties?

Mega evolutions, which now seem to have been shoved under a rug or something.

Z moves too, which will probably end up having the same fate as mega evolutions, pushed to the side and ignored from next gen onwards.

Regional forms, for the most part I like these, but Diglett/Dugtrio... WHY? That`s a massive liberty right there!

Up until and including gen 5 Pokemon may have been a fantasy world and all but it at least followed some sense of logic. There was a reason to things, what reason is there for suddenly finding that a bunch of Pokemon can temporarily evolve in to a mega version with some special stone, or that waving your arms about like a weirdo would make your pokemon use an ultra powerful move, or that a tropical variant of the Diglett line would have blonde hair, seriously, WTF with that one?

The "hair" is based off of Pele's Hair. That's why Dugtrio and Diglett have it. It's a nice obscure nod to something you see in Hawaii. Thin yellow strips of fiberglass that resemble blonde hair. Nothing odd about it hell, I knew about it before Dugtrio's Alolan form 

 



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Ka-pi96 said:
StarOcean said:

The "hair" is based off of Pele's Hair. That's why Dugtrio and Diglett have it. It's a nice obscure nod to something you see in Hawaii. Thin yellow strips of fiberglass that resemble blonde hair. Nothing odd about it hell, I knew about it before Dugtrio's Alolan form 

 

huh, I didn`t know that. I guess it`s based on something at least then, still looks ugly though

Oh, and for a moment I thought you were talking about the footballer Pele and I was like WTF does his hair (does he even have any?) have to do with Diglett?

In the game it makes sense that it has it XD 

 

I know Pele from kids shows growing up x.x and more recently SMT games



spemanig said:
tbone51 said:
I always thought a sequel of gen 1 was smart. All i kno is gamefreak will surprise us again. Gen5 started the non traditional game releases. We all thought grey and z was coming but nope :p


I'm 100% sure that Z was a game that existed and was canceled/merged with Sun and Moon.

If this is true, maybe GameFreak should start merging all their third games to the next gen. I don't mind the extra years if we keep getting fresh games like Sun and Moon.



Pokemon Stars, that lets you travel back to Kanto and take on new gyms leaders and a new elite 4 would be nice. And if they really want to make it special travel to Kanto and Jhoto since all 3 regions are right by each other.



Ka-pi96 said:
spemanig said:

What liberties?

Mega evolutions, which now seem to have been shoved under a rug or something.

Z moves too, which will probably end up having the same fate as mega evolutions, pushed to the side and ignored from next gen onwards.

Regional forms, for the most part I like these, but Diglett/Dugtrio... WHY? That`s a massive liberty right there!

Up until and including gen 5 Pokemon may have been a fantasy world and all but it at least followed some sense of logic. There was a reason to things, what reason is there for suddenly finding that a bunch of Pokemon can temporarily evolve in to a mega version with some special stone, or that waving your arms about like a weirdo would make your pokemon use an ultra powerful move, or that a tropical variant of the Diglett line would have blonde hair, seriously, WTF with that one?

Edit: Actually add Black/White 2 to that list. I really liked the idea of only having gen 5 Pokemon present in Unova it really made it feel genuinely foreign and far away from any previous region, which I think is what they intended by that and by basing it on New York as opposed to Japan. But then they ruined that by adding previous gen Pokemon in the sequels.

 

Going back to a previous region and being like `hey in the last 20 years some new never seen before Pokemon just popped up out of no where` would be a massive liberty to me.

I wouldn't consider new Pokemon migrating to an old region after a decade to be as big a liberty as super saiyan pokemon or pokemon super moves.

Honestly, the only "liberty" is with mega-evolutions and ultrabeasts. The reason Megas seem so out of place is because pokemon were always designed around a concept of (very very lose) natural ecology. They were treated like animals that evolved naturally to become what they are, and anything that wasn't was either man-made or are yokai (like Muk or Klefki). Mega Evolutions are weird because it even within the contexts of the games they are unnaturally organic occurances happening often times to historically natural Pokemon. Mega-Evolutions are really just form changes, but they're weird because they are put on Pokemon who were never designed to have these types of form changes. Darmanitan's forme change doesn't seem weird because that is part of it's natural biology. Minior's doesn't seem weird for the same reason. Cherrim, Deoxys, Rotom, Sawsbuck, etc all feel normal with form changes because it's a natural part of their composition. Mega's are not that, which is why they feel like a liberty.

Z-Moves make sense because it's really just an extenision of the domestication of these "animals." It's just a special trick they learn after being domesticated. Mega-evolutions exist outside of that natural design philosophy, which is why it's so weird. The dance is still stupid, but that doesn't make it a liberty. Ultra Beasts are obviously self explanetory, but I like them, so I don't mind.

There's nothing wrong with Alolan Diglett/Dugtrio from a "typical Pokemon" perspective. You just don't like the design, which is fine.

Same with B2W2. Just because you don't like that design decision (neither do I) does not mean that Pokemon was "taking liberties" by having Pokemon migrate to Unova during those two years. Pokemon did the same thing with Gen 2 Kanto. What a coinky-dink.

I don't actually think the next generation will take place in an old region like Kanto, but it wouldn't be some huge creative liberty for something like that to happen, especially when it already has to a smaller scale with Gen 2 Kanto. Especially with the number of new additions shrinking. A Kanto/Johto treated as one great region with 70 or so new Pokemon, new characters, possibly new towns and cities, a new threat that isn't Team Rocket, and an updated setting would be very cool. Hell, do something really crazy and have the player start somewhere else like Saffron or something. And this is coming from someone who loaths Gen 1 pandering.



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t3mporary_126 said:
spemanig said:


I'm 100% sure that Z was a game that existed and was canceled/merged with Sun and Moon.

If this is true, maybe GameFreak should start merging all their third games to the next gen. I don't mind the extra years if we keep getting fresh games like Sun and Moon.

I don't think they should. They pretty much bastardized the 6th generation by setting up something they never satisfyingly concluded. Gen 6 is inarguably the most incomplete generation because of it, and Zygarde means close to nothing in Sun/Moon.

What Pokemon really should do is stop making intentionally incomplete generational games. Stop introducing Pokemon like Necrozma that are obviously there to set up future games and stop introducing incomplete plotlines like what happened with Zygarde.

Hell, they honestly should just stop making dual Pokemon games all together. There's no technical or monetary reason for it. They could accomplish literally all of the same things with one game. Version exclusives could be choice based. You pick this starter (though honestly they should just let us chose whatever Pokemon we want to start), and you only have access to these Pokemon. You make this choice, and you only have access to those. Then they wouldn't have to arbitrarily need to design legendary Pokemon who's dominions are completely irrelevant to the story around this forced duality anymore and could just focus on one singular plot like was the case with RBGY. Or hell, they could make the plot change based on your choices instead of on what version you arbitrerily pick.



Ka-pi96 said:
spemanig said:

I wouldn't consider new Pokemon migrating to an old region after a decade to be as big a liberty as super saiyan pokemon or pokemon super moves.

Honestly, the only "liberty" is with mega-evolutions and ultrabeasts. The reason Megas seem so out of place is because pokemon were always designed around a concept of (very very lose) natural ecology. They were treated like animals that evolved naturally to become what they are, and anything that wasn't was either man-made or are yokai (like Muk or Klefki). Mega Evolutions are weird because it even within the contexts of the games they are unnaturally organic occurances happening often times to historically natural Pokemon. Mega-Evolutions are really just form changes, but they're weird because they are put on Pokemon who were never designed to have these types of form changes. Darmanitan's forme change doesn't seem weird because that is part of it's natural biology. Minior's doesn't seem weird for the same reason. Cherrim, Deoxys, Rotom, Sawsbuck, etc all feel normal with form changes because it's a natural part of their composition. Mega's are not that, which is why they feel like a liberty.

Z-Moves make sense because it's really just an extenision of the domestication of these "animals." It's just a special trick they learn after being domesticated. Mega-evolutions exist outside of that natural design philosophy, which is why it's so weird. The dance is still stupid, but that doesn't make it a liberty. Ultra Beasts are obviously self explanetory, but I like them, so I don't mind.

There's nothing wrong with Alolan Diglett/Dugtrio from a "typical Pokemon" perspective. You just don't like the design, which is fine.

Same with B2W2. Just because you don't like that design decision (neither do I) does not mean that Pokemon was "taking liberties" by having Pokemon migrate to Unova during those two years. Pokemon did the same thing with Gen 2 Kanto. What a coinky-dink.

I don't actually think the next generation will take place in an old region like Kanto, but it wouldn't be some huge creative liberty for something like that to happen, especially when it already has to a smaller scale with Gen 2 Kanto. Especially with the number of new additions shrinking. A Kanto/Johto treated as one great region with 70 or so new Pokemon, new characters, possibly new towns and cities, a new threat that isn't Team Rocket, and an updated setting would be very cool. Hell, do something really crazy and have the player start somewhere else like Saffron or something. And this is coming from someone who loaths Gen 1 pandering.

Definitely agree on megaevolutions.

@bolded I don`t think that`s so bad. Johto is literally right next to Kanto, Pokemon can easily walk/swim from one region to the other. So Pokemon migrating from Johto to Kanto, as long as it`s not done too much, fits quite easily. Unova, depending on how far away it really is but based on real world geography which Pokemon seems to be copying it would be a very long way, doesn`t fit quite so much. Especially in the time frame that was given. The Pokemon world is obviously quite old based on all the ancient legends involving Pokemon and what not, so there must be a reason that Pokemon from Kanto, Johto etc haven`t migrated to Unova in the hundreds/thousands of years prior to B/W yet suddenly within 2 years a whole bunch do. The only reasonable explanation I could think of that is that humans suddenly decided to introduce them, but then they`d likely be incredibly rare compared to native Unova Pokemon still.

That said, I think a Kanto/Johto super region could work with new Pokemon if they expanded the region to include the Northern part of Japan`s Chubu region as well. Could even start the player in that section and then later in the game be like, oh yeah you can go to Kanto/Johto too now. Would be a pretty cool surprise just like gen 2 had. Plus, given the very different climate there it would give them an excuse to have more regional forms of other Pokemon as well.

So? The US isn't filled with North America-exclusive animals. In the real world, everlap is everywhere. The sooner you stop thinking of Pokemon as originating from the region they premiered in, the easier this stuff is to accept. For all we know, Kanto Pokemon are just a conglomeration of migrated western Pokemon. The older Pokemon in B2W2 Unova probably migrated from neighboring regions too, just one's we don't have access to.

Again, you could say the same thing about GSE Kanto. Johto was right there. There's no good reason for the Pokemon to suddenly have a change of heart in the span of two years, and yet that's exactly what happened. Again, you have to stop thinking of certain Pokemon as Kanto Pokemon or Hoenn Pokemon and just think of them as Pokemon. Electabuzz is not a "Kanto" Pokemon. It's just a Pokemon first introduced to us as players in Kanto. Electabuzz can be found everywhere in the Pokemon world.

Adding another region on top of Kanto would really negate the point of revisiting, though. At that point, they could just make a new region and end it there. There was a purpose behind revisiting Kanto after Johto that doesn't exist anymore if done in that same way.



Ka-pi96 said:

Yet that overlap is rarely the same kinds of animals. There are a lot of NA exclusive animals found in America, but even the ones in common with other places can still be different subspecies or whatever (regional forms, heh ). And why shouldn`t I think as certain Pokemon being specific to certain regions? I`m not saying overlap is bad, but that not every type of Pokemon should be found everywhere. Some regions having more in common with others and other regions having few if any of the same Pokemon makes a lot of sense, both from comparing to the real world and from a logical perspective.

And I don`t see why adding a new region would negate the point of revisiting, you yourself said add new towns/cities and stuff. I think it`s a perfectly good way to add intrigue to the new games (rather than them just being Kanto... again) as well as explaining why there are differences. Plus it wouldn`t trample over peoples nostalgia for Kanto/Johto by altering them too drastically.

Because that's not how Pokemon has ever funtioned. Pokemon has literally never treated pokemon as region specific. Not even legendaries in many cases. There isn't the same diversity of ecology in Pokemon as there are in the real world. When there are millions and billions of unique species of Pokemon, then maybe we can walk about having region specific pokemon. Not every type of Pokemon is found everywhere as is. But every Pokemon introduced is available in more than one region, because Pokemon have never been region specific. They were never treated that way and shouldn't be expected to act that way.

Because the whole point of revisiting is that the region changed so much in 10 years that it's already essentially a new region. When I said to add new towns, I meant like with B2W2 Unova. Adding a new region would just mean setting it there. That's no different from every new Pokemon game. It wouldn't add intruigue to anything - it would literally just be doing the same thing they do every generation.

Let it trample over people's nostalgia. That's the point. Kanto/Johto aren't frozen in time. The 80s was completely different from the 90s. This is a decade of difference. Pokemon isn't a time capsule. Kanto isn't a place where you stay a kid forever. It already changed drastically over the course of 3 years in GSC and people were fine. Cinnabar Island was completely Pompei'd, and people got over it. Pokemon Tower was turned into a radio tower, and people were fine. Red and Blue are canonically 21 now, and people are fine. People understand the basic progression of time. They'll be fine.



Alkibiádēs said:
Einsam_Delphin said:

All I know is the next games that feature new pocket monsters better have a dolphin pokemon, or else... or else... OR ELSE!!!... I'll still buy the game anyway...

Kyogre is based on an orca, which is closely related to dolphins. And Tapu Fini resembles a swordfish, marlin and dolphin combined.

They aren't dolphins, assuming your point is that they already made one.



Ka-pi96 said:
spemanig said:

Because that's not how Pokemon has ever funtioned. Pokemon has literally never treated pokemon as region specific. Not even legendaries in many cases. There isn't the same diversity of ecology in Pokemon as there are in the real world. When there are millions and billions of unique species of Pokemon, then maybe we can walk about having region specific pokemon. Not every type of Pokemon is found everywhere as is. But every Pokemon introduced is available in more than one region, because Pokemon have never been region specific. They were never treated that way and shouldn't be expected to act that way.

Because the whole point of revisiting is that the region changed so much in 10 years that it's already essentially a new region. When I said to add new towns, I meant like with B2W2 Unova. Adding a new region would just mean setting it there. That's no different from every new Pokemon game. It wouldn't add intruigue to anything - it would literally just be doing the same thing they do every generation.

Let it trample over people's nostalgia. That's the point. Kanto/Johto aren't frozen in time. The 80s was completely different from the 90s. This is a decade of difference. Pokemon isn't a time capsule. Kanto isn't a place where you stay a kid forever. It already changed drastically over the course of 3 years in GSC and people were fine. Cinnabar Island was completely Pompei'd, and people got over it. Pokemon Tower was turned into a radio tower, and people were fine. Red and Blue are canonically 21 now, and people are fine. People understand the basic progression of time. They'll be fine.

Well every single gen there are some Pokemon (the new ones) that are exclusive to a single region And hey, regardless of how they are treated and done in the franchise I can still want them in a way that mirrors real life more. Although at the very least regional forms is currently something like what I`m looking for. The Alolan forms are currently regional specific Pokemon, sure they may be very similar to Pokemon from other regions, but so are many region specific real life animals. As long as Alolan forms stay Alola specific and aren`t made available in future gens (preferably because future regions would have their own regional form Pokemon, as well as some of the standard forms rather than because regional forms never happen again) then that would be something at least.

10 years doesn`t seem that much though. The people and their attitudes may change, sure. But for the most part the same towns, buildings and especially the landscape is going to remain the same with maybe a few alterations here and there. People understand the progression of time, but if they go back to the town/city they grew up in they`re still going to recognise most of the stuff there. There may be times where they think `woah, that`s new`, but for the most part they`re going to know all the places and possibly even people there. If they go back to Kanto it doesn`t need to be exactly the same, but it needs to be mostly the same and still easily recognisable as Kanto. If they`re not taking advantage of people`s nostalgia and fondness of Kanto then what`s the point of even going back there?

They aren't though. You just don't know of the regions they are apart of yet. You can definitely want it to be however you want. I'm just saying that they aren't taking liberties by doing things like that. I would be very surprised if regional Pokemon formes became a thing outside of Alola, even though I like them too. It's being treated like an alolan thing from what I see.

Time is accelerated in Pokemon, though. Again, look at how much changed in Kanto and Unova in just 3 and 2 years. It doesn't need to make perfect sense in terms of time. It never has. Literally, just having the same basic map layout is enough to take advantage of people's nostalgia. It doesn't need to be the same for people to recognize it, and having new pokemon there wouldn't effect that. Having new towns won't either, just like erredicating Cinnabar didn't. All they need are many of the same characters and references to what came before. GF have a lot of creative freedom for something like this.