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Forums - Gaming Discussion - [DF] Performance Analysis: Final Fantasy 15

Lauster on 01 December 2016
Mafioso said:
DonFerrari said:

X1 is capable of transforming PS ugly pixels in pretty pixels?

See for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EasYMRHUsQw&t=221s

XBO S can hardware upscale to 4K anything you put into it.

 Kodi thru it does sharpen my streams considerably.

It works better than the upscalers in both the Samsung KS8000, LG UH8500  that i have and certainly the HU6300 in the video above.

I have some doubts about this video.

Microsoft already said this :

Xbox One S does not currently support 4K pass-through via HDMI-in. We will continue to explore making the changes needed for the hardware to support pass-through as 4K broadcasts become more widespread.

http://windowsreport.com/xbox-one-s-support-4k-pass-through/



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pbroy on 01 December 2016
Mafioso said:
pbroy said:

XboneS has a good 4K upscaler. There was a day 1  patch to get rid of some of that fog. Also, it'll dynamically upscale on Scorpio. So, I don't see your argument. Bashing a game on graphics won't make the story any worse. That is the greatness I am speaking of. Go play Mobius Final Fantasy. Game has horrible fog, but it is very enjoyable.

Very good upscaler. People are sleeping on it, tbh. Probably those without a 4K HDR TV that haven't seen the difference first hand.

Vids out there showing an OG PS4 thru an XBO S and the different it makes in Uncharted 4 in the colors and details is excellent, it pops. Shockingly close to what you get from the Pro version.

That's some Bona-fide loven...

Lauster said:
Mafioso said:

See for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EasYMRHUsQw&t=221s

XBO S can hardware upscale to 4K anything you put into it.

 Kodi thru it does sharpen my streams considerably.

It works better than the upscalers in both the Samsung KS8000, LG UH8500  that i have and certainly the HU6300 in the video above.

I have some doubts about this video.

Microsoft already said this :

Xbox One S does not currently support 4K pass-through via HDMI-in. We will continue to explore making the changes needed for the hardware to support pass-through as 4K broadcasts become more widespread.

http://windowsreport.com/xbox-one-s-support-4k-pass-through/

It doesn't pass-through 4K, but it scales anything coming out of the Bone to 4K. Call it a 4K desktop, if you will. Since it acts like a computer desktop, hypervisor and all.

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Mafioso on 01 December 2016

Right the HDMI Input in the XBO S doesn't pass-thru 4K.  So you don't want to feed 4K source into it or it will be manipulated by the XBO hardware scaler.

What is the confusion? This requires a tiny bit of basic understanding.

A PS4 is not a 4K source to pass thru in the first place.

A 4K Pass-thru MEANS The signal going in comes out UNTOUCHED at the Output.

Because its not passing thru a 4K source going INTO IT , it is upconverting it. Duh.



PC I i7 3770K @4.5Ghz I 16GB 2400Mhz I GTX 980Ti FTW

Consoles I PS4 Pro I Xbox One S 2TB I Wii U I Xbox 360 S

DonFerrari on 01 December 2016
Bandorr said:
DonFerrari said:

X1 is capable of transforming PS ugly pixels in pretty pixels?

At the cost of quite a lot of lag. I mean you are routing it through an entire console that is doing the upscaling - making this practice very, very useless.

I don't even remember if it works. I am fairly sure the xbox one S doesn't do 4k pass-through and it is just the TV doing the upscaling.

I don't mind lag too much, but since my tv already upscale I don't think there would be much value passing it through X1S.

irstupid said:
DonFerrari said:

Thrust only your eyes, they are the ones that need to be impressed, not reviewers with agendas.

And how does that help someone who doesn't own the system or game and wants to know before they buy. Youtube videos are crap. Every game looks infinitely better in person than on youtube.

But if I'm contemplating buying a Xbox One S or not and decide to go to websites like IGN or something for their input. How does it help me to listen to them talk pros and cons if they don't even have a 4k/hdr tv for the reviewing purposes? Games apparantly upscale pretty good from what I've heard from some individual youtube reviewers, but these MAINSTREAM websites that are huge like IGN are reviewing this 4k upscaler system on a 1080p tv? How does that make sense.

Would you want them reviewing the ps4 pro on a 1080p tv? My 4k discs I purchased, came with a digital copy and a blu ray copy. I suppose I should watch the digital version on my ipad and put up a 4k review for the movie huh? That makes sense right.

I'm saying that because reviewers aren't much thrustworthy, unfortunately. The only good way to evaluate before buying is either having a demo or going to the store and play it.

It doesn't make any sense, but we have know for quite some time that IGN is full of crap and DF is basically the only place that does a respectable analysis on the graphical side of things.

Nope I wouldn't want they reviewing PS4Pro 4k mode on a 1080p tv, the most I would accept is they analyzing the improvements it does on a 1080p tv against the PS4 vanilla. But they must be very straight and separate them. And you know it doesn't make sense but you also know that not only there would be critics analyzing the IQ of the movie on the iPad as if it were 4k as there are reviewers that review a game by watching YT gameplay.

Mafioso said:
DonFerrari said:

X1 is capable of transforming PS ugly pixels in pretty pixels?

See for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EasYMRHUsQw&t=221s

XBO S can hardware upscale to 4K anything you put into it.

 Kodi thru it does sharpen my streams considerably.

It works better than the upscalers in both the Samsung KS8000, LG UH8500  that i have and certainly the HU6300 in the video above.

Not allowed in company to see YT =[

My TV can upscale to 4k anything as well, 65X850C from Sony, and it is said to be quite competent at it, dunno how much it fairs against X1S on upscalling side, but wouldn't passing through the system make the biggest issue (which is the lag) even bigger?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Lauster on 01 December 2016
Mafioso said:

Right the HDMI Input in the XBO S doesn't pass-thru 4K.  So you don't want to feed 4K source into it or it will be manipulated by the XBO hardware scaler.

What is the confusion? This requires a tiny bit of basic understanding.

A PS4 is not a 4K source to pass thru in the first place.

A 4K Pass-thru MEANS The signal going in comes out UNTOUCHED at the Output.

Because its not passing thru a 4K source going INTO IT , it is upconverting it. Duh.

Oops, I misunderstood, I saw the "pass-through" thing by Bandorr and thought it was the goal of the video of your previous post, sorry (and moreover you were not responding to him, I really have to go home ">_>).

Even in the case of the video, and as others have already said, it's better to let the TV upscale the OG PS4 output (that has already the HDR now) than having more lag with the XB1S (except maybe if the TV upscaler is really bad).



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Mafioso on 01 December 2016
DonFerrari said:
Bandorr said:

At the cost of quite a lot of lag. I mean you are routing it through an entire console that is doing the upscaling - making this practice very, very useless.

I don't even remember if it works. I am fairly sure the xbox one S doesn't do 4k pass-through and it is just the TV doing the upscaling.

I don't mind lag too much, but since my tv already upscale I don't think there would be much value passing it through X1S.

irstupid said:

And how does that help someone who doesn't own the system or game and wants to know before they buy. Youtube videos are crap. Every game looks infinitely better in person than on youtube.

But if I'm contemplating buying a Xbox One S or not and decide to go to websites like IGN or something for their input. How does it help me to listen to them talk pros and cons if they don't even have a 4k/hdr tv for the reviewing purposes? Games apparantly upscale pretty good from what I've heard from some individual youtube reviewers, but these MAINSTREAM websites that are huge like IGN are reviewing this 4k upscaler system on a 1080p tv? How does that make sense.

Would you want them reviewing the ps4 pro on a 1080p tv? My 4k discs I purchased, came with a digital copy and a blu ray copy. I suppose I should watch the digital version on my ipad and put up a 4k review for the movie huh? That makes sense right.

I'm saying that because reviewers aren't much thrustworthy, unfortunately. The only good way to evaluate before buying is either having a demo or going to the store and play it.

It doesn't make any sense, but we have know for quite some time that IGN is full of crap and DF is basically the only place that does a respectable analysis on the graphical side of things.

Nope I wouldn't want they reviewing PS4Pro 4k mode on a 1080p tv, the most I would accept is they analyzing the improvements it does on a 1080p tv against the PS4 vanilla. But they must be very straight and separate them. And you know it doesn't make sense but you also know that not only there would be critics analyzing the IQ of the movie on the iPad as if it were 4k as there are reviewers that review a game by watching YT gameplay.

Mafioso said:

See for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EasYMRHUsQw&t=221s

XBO S can hardware upscale to 4K anything you put into it.

 Kodi thru it does sharpen my streams considerably.

It works better than the upscalers in both the Samsung KS8000, LG UH8500  that i have and certainly the HU6300 in the video above.

Not allowed in company to see YT =[

My TV can upscale to 4k anything as well, 65X850C from Sony, and it is said to be quite competent at it, dunno how much it fairs against X1S on upscalling side, but wouldn't passing through the system make the biggest issue (which is the lag) even bigger

Your TV, any TV, will add lag upconverting a 1080p signal to 4K anyways. If anything, its better done at the hardware level letting the display simply display a native 4K input with no processing to do on its own. This is why monitors don't upscale ;)

If your TV is in Game mode, the signal coming into it will be recognized as Native 4K from the XBO S and will operate with minimal lag added by the display.

I played MGSV (PS4) upscaled thru the XBO S and it played just fine.  Lag to me is a complete disconnect from my inputs, like how Remote Play has lag. Feels nothing like that. That said i'm not encouraging E-ports players to start upconverting their PS4 CoD thru an XBO. 



PC I i7 3770K @4.5Ghz I 16GB 2400Mhz I GTX 980Ti FTW

Consoles I PS4 Pro I Xbox One S 2TB I Wii U I Xbox 360 S

DonFerrari on 01 December 2016
Mafioso said:
DonFerrari said:

I don't mind lag too much, but since my tv already upscale I don't think there would be much value passing it through X1S.

I'm saying that because reviewers aren't much thrustworthy, unfortunately. The only good way to evaluate before buying is either having a demo or going to the store and play it.

It doesn't make any sense, but we have know for quite some time that IGN is full of crap and DF is basically the only place that does a respectable analysis on the graphical side of things.

Nope I wouldn't want they reviewing PS4Pro 4k mode on a 1080p tv, the most I would accept is they analyzing the improvements it does on a 1080p tv against the PS4 vanilla. But they must be very straight and separate them. And you know it doesn't make sense but you also know that not only there would be critics analyzing the IQ of the movie on the iPad as if it were 4k as there are reviewers that review a game by watching YT gameplay.

Not allowed in company to see YT =[

My TV can upscale to 4k anything as well, 65X850C from Sony, and it is said to be quite competent at it, dunno how much it fairs against X1S on upscalling side, but wouldn't passing through the system make the biggest issue (which is the lag) even bigger

Your TV, any TV, will add lag upconverting a 1080p signal to 4K anyways. If anything, its better done at the hardware level letting the display simply display a native 4K input with no processing to do on its own.

If your TV is in Game mode, the signal coming into it will be recognized as Native 4K from the XBO S and will operate with minimal lag added by the display.

I played MGSV (PS4) upscaled thru the XBO S and it played just fine.  Lag to me is a complete disconnect from my inputs, like how Remote Play has lag. Feels nothing like that. That said i'm not encouraging E-ports players to start upconverting their PS4 CoD thru an XBO. 

And why you use MGS V on PS4 upscaled thru X1S instead of just playing MGS V on X1S?

I find it hard to believe that upscaling on the TV would be worse than passing it over X1 for upscale, is there evidence of it?

Any TV (and X1) will add lag, but the image quality will differ depending of the upscaler (lag too), and 65X855C have a very good IQ on upscaling or so I heard still have to compare the same material upscaled or native.

And I find it even harder to believe that it would be better to play on PS4Pro on lite mode and upscale with X1S than to use checkerboard solution and no upscale at all.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Platina on 01 December 2016

Interesting, do recall hearing issues of stuttering even in the demo



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Mafioso on 01 December 2016

Seeing is believing. First hand experience rules.

I already had MGSV on PS4, the experiment was easy to do once i got my XBO S. 

You do realize that 1800p checkerboard is not native 4K? So something is upscaling...adding lag. Those calculations don't come free. Basics of digital signal processing.

Mr. 4K Upscaler on YT has a Vizio M series and he shows how Forza 6 looks  A/B with the XBO S outputting 4K vs 1080p from the settings. the 4K output craps on the TV's upscaler, which actually made the image look stretched a bit in comparison.

If you are putting your PS4 into a 4K TV, the upconversion by the display is adding lag.

Complaining about the XBO S adding lag seems trivial at this point, since either way you add  lag.  To video games. You play from the couch. With wireless controllers. ;)



PC I i7 3770K @4.5Ghz I 16GB 2400Mhz I GTX 980Ti FTW

Consoles I PS4 Pro I Xbox One S 2TB I Wii U I Xbox 360 S

squibbfire on 01 December 2016

Ive seen ff xv side by side in person on xbox ps4 and ps4 pro in the past few days...and on high end samsung tvs...

There is no contest...ps4 and ps4 pro both outperform xbox s...I've seen this first hand....anyone telling you otherwise is trying persuade you for other reasons...